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Jeez, tell me you're kidding!!

And, you didn't actually drive here did you? I think I would have driven her off a cliff!

Yes, I did drive her to the store to get her dress!!!! keep in mind I was only 16 years old. I can still remember (I'm 48 now) sitting in my car outside the dress shop. I could see teacher in the front window of the store, trying on her gown and twirling around in it for the whole store to see. footnote to this story: oftentimes, parents would sit through this teacher's lessons, watching their kids cry and fall apart.
"But your teacher is so good and quite famous" was what they would tell their kids.

Barb,

You know, I get the feeling that this particular teacher was taught by someone probably even more abusive than she turned out to be. Where else would she get such ideas? That's probably how she became so tough on herself.. Imagine having the teacher you could never please, then breaking your neck to try to please them, and in the process becoming an excellent pianist. Without having anyone else to compare to, you might begin to think that that's the only way to teach.

Alas, not all brilliant pianists are great teachers, though..

WRT the post I wrote earlier in this thread, my Mom has always
told me that I really improved during my time with the teacher I loathed so much.

And, then, Barb, for her to ask you to drive her somewhere is... outrageous! What a way to take advantage of someone..
*shudder*

BevP

Keyboardklutz,

How could you ever have remotely imagined that it would be okay to yell at a special needs child, especially in his face?

razzigirl, I don't know if you have ever been a classroom teacher in a tough school. I can tell you that dealing with groups of unruly teenagers drives you to act in ways which can be completely out of character. In fact some kids will make it their business to wind you up to the point where you will snap.

I got out of the classroom because it made me miserable. I found the only way I could keep discipline was to be as mean as possible. But it just wasn't me and I could not put on an act. If I was mean and strict I would go home feeling horrible.

KBK did mention that shouting in that kids face was the wrong thing to do and is in fact pointless. But sometimes you find yourself shouting and screaming because that is what it does to you.

Sorry, but I gotta go with Keyboardklutz and Chris on this one.
I'm fairly certain no one ever went to class with the intentions of getting in someone's face.

I work with SpEd kids and I can tell you there are no kids on the planet that can push buttons faster than these guys. Like someone said earlier, "lack of sleep", "feeling ill" etc... and it doesn't take much to push you to your limit some days.

As long as we apologize for outburst and let them know that we all have "bad days" we are also teaching these kids that we all have limits, we are not perfect either and it's okay. I'm not condoning yelling all the time, but it's good to let kids know the boundaries.

In those situations you don't exactly have the presence of mind to 'imagine' anything. Try it.

Teachers can be firm without being mean. And if you have to make your student feel bad about their playing and musicality in order to make your playing and expertise seem better there is something wrong with that picture. Teachers need to remember there is other things going on in students lives also no matter their age or playing level and sometimes they have a hard time dealing with things so that when they come to a lesson perhaps they are not trying to be difficult but it is one more thing to handle and that day they are on overload so a little understanding can be in order to keep them on the right path or practicing the correct way so that they are not totally discouraged. And if one doesn't realize that a special needs child has to be taught from many different angles sometimes every single lesson and yelling isn't one of them then they need to not teach special needs children or find another method that will work because that one won't.

I worked with mentally handicapped children for over 3 years, which is why I was a bit upset when I read Keyboardklutz's message. I also taught English in Asia to kids for 5 months. I know what it's like to want to scream my head off. During these moments though, I just took a deep breath and reminded myself that these children weren't intentionally trying to anger me.

I didn't mean to pass judgment on you Keyboardklutz. We all have our bad days and deal with things differently. When I was a kid, I used to scream at my little brother sometimes and not let him play with me. I really do regret that now.

Are we talking classroom teaching in an inner-city school? Five classes of 25 - 30 a day? It's extreme, and I recommend the experience to all who are privileged to teach one to one (as I now am - though I prefer 2 or 3 to one) in nice places.

I can't imagine a better way of encouraging students to love music in general and piano in particular than making them cry at their lessons.

I read with keen interest this thread because of what happened to my son last week.

Let me start with a little background. My son is 6yo going on 7 soon. He started taking piano lessons since July last year, and by many accounts, he’s progressing well. He is currently studying Burgmuller Opus 100 Ballade, and Bach’s Little Preludes. Two weeks ago, due to his progress with Burgmuller, his teacher signed him up to play at the school’s open-house party, and he has been practicing for over an hour a day, 5 days a week. But last week just before the party, after his lesson, his teacher came out and talked to me, which she rarely does for his lesson typically runs past the 30 minutes. She was mad and told me that she is considering pulling him out of playing at the party, because he has regressed: something about his right hand does not play staccato correctly, and both hands got “muddy” in the last few measures. She also admitted she yelled at him, and he cried. I was shocked! A few months back, when dropping him off, I saw the girl in the lesson preceding his came out of the session, tears streaming down her cheeks. After that incident, I basically told the teacher that I don’t know what has happened, and don’t care, but would not want the same thing to happen to my child. That, if he does not do things that she asks, she can discuss it with me, but don’t yell at him. She agreed.

After this incident, I’m considering changing his teacher, because I believe there is no room for mean teachers in young children’s education, piano or otherwise. She is strict, and I’m OK with that. I don’t expect laughter to stream out of the studio, but I don’t expect yelling and crying either. I understand teachers are human, and many care deeply about their field, and the progress of their students, hence the frustration and consequently the occasional loud voice but making your students cry at lessons isn’t acceptable. Kids are human, there will days when they are good, and days when they are not to your expectaion. There has got to be another way! I read with horror the stories about knuckle rapping and such. If my son has to endure torture to play piano well, then I’ll pass.

Teachers, I implore you to pass on to your students the joy of music, not the pain of it. Music in general, and piano in particular, might be your love, and for it you have dedicated hours of your time to. But it’s not your students’ yet. Take the encouragement approach, and in time many will develop the love. Get the parents involved when the children are not doing what is asked of them. Stop the lesson if you feel frustrated. It’s simply wrong to be mean to your students.

Your son is a talented child, playing Bach and Burgmuller. This is wonderful and I share in that joy with you! He is accomplishing a great deal, so much to be proud of.
32 years ago I put up with verbal abuse from a teacher, who is still teaching at a music conservatory. I started this thread in hopes that we can share similar experiences, offer support to each other, and if nothing else, just read and learn.
My heart goes out to you, you sound like a kind-hearted person who cares deeply for your child and you are aware of what is going on. Follow your heart, there are many very fine teachers out there.

I almost shelved my plans for a piano diploma after 6 months with my current teacher ... I just couldn't take the mental torment any longer. I'm not a child (I'm 36!), and she yells at me whenever I fail to produce the "standard" she expects. She is a good teacher - she knows a lot and has great experience - but I'm starting to DREAD every lesson because of my experience with her. In my last lesson, I was close to a depressive episode - and that was the last straw. I think she was trying to destroy every iota of confidence I had in myself ... (???)

All in all, I'm glad I'm changing teacher and am starting lessons with ANOTHER teacher in June 09. (even though I've paid for the june lessons with my yelling teacher LOL).

Sigh ...

I stopped playing saxophone due to a meany. He was from France and quite a douche if I say so myself.

Mean teachers do not care about their students, On the contrary, it's all about them and their frustrated dreams and desires. This unfortunately produces sadists who then take it out on innocent students. So sad really.

I don't know why we even have to say this. Isn't it self-evident?

I agree 100% with you.

I wouldn't recommend that kind of teaching to my worst enemy.

But I would like to see people who make quick judgments about others who do it have to do it themselves. Five classes in one day with that kind of class load is VERY difficult even when you get cooperation from the students, and how often does that happen?

Could be true, who really knows though? In my experience with a complete nut case of a sadistic teacher, this teacher continues to have major success in her career at a reputable music school...for the past 35 YEARS. She is highly respected! What the heck is up with that? Question:
HOW CAN MEAN TEACHERS CONTINUE TO BE SUCCESSFUL given their reputations for hurting students? IMO, I think these folks are indeed very self involved, they do not care about their students and in some odd way, I don't think they want students to succeed, this is threatening, that someone could be "better than" they are.

Answer: There are even more masochistic students than there are sadistic teachers. Many students believe unless their teacher is punitive, they won't learn at the highest level. They equate abuse with love.

Interesting isn't it?

I'm lis'nin to ya. I had the same thing at the same age! Sadly they are in very rare occasions a genius and that, as it's a gift from the gods, demands respect. That said of course, most are just losers! Here's a thread I started last year: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/957058/1.html