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There is a thread going in the Corner about a student who had a nasty teacher in her past, and how such lessons with this person affected her.
This prompted me to start a thread over here about Mean Teachers. Were you brought to tears at lessons yourselves?
Have you said something that you know caused your student to cry? How have your own teachers taught you how to teach: are you patient,when that kid simply cannot count 3/4 meter after the 85th try?
I had a teacher who told students ahead of each lesson that she would bring them to tears. She did.

One of my 3rd grade boys almost cried today. I feel cranky today, and my voice got a little sharp.

I asked him if I sounded angry at him. He said, "Yes."

Well, I felt like a real jerk, because this is a really cool, cooperative kid. So I kept on teaching but totally stressed the fact that even though one little thing was wrong, and that happens to everyone, his work was good. And I REALLY stressed how much I like him, which is true.

And he left with a smile. Whenever a student leaves very upset, I feel as though I have handled something very badly—except in very unusual circumstances.

Anyone with a strong personality *could* bring just about any student to tears, but not only do I think it is wrong, I think such a teacher has a serious mental health problem.

I remember my first teacher as being brutal! I still have a scar on the back of my hand where the metal edge of the ruler cut into the back of my hand.

My brother had a hard time with a section of Mancini's "Baby Elephant Walk" and to this day I see the red ink scrawled across that part " FORGET IT STEVE!". I wonder how he would feel if he knew his writings had such a negative impact.

I have had kids "tear up" a few times. But like Gary said, I always make sure it's all good before they leave. Sometimes it's because I "barked" that them, but usually it's the same few, and they are just really touchy.

Why would she do that? Power probably...? I think that we probably all have the "power" to do that, but why would we want to?


Okay, what/where is that?

There are teachers who take pride in having the reputation of making students cry. Some say that this means the lessons are truly meaningful due to the intensity. Of course I think this is ridiculous but it does happen.
A friend of mine in high school studied with such a teacher for many years, even into the college level, as this teacher taught at a university. My friend cried at every single lesson she had.

"nervous at lessons" by cherry coke

You're not the only one with rulers in your past. No physical scars, though!

Was this a private teacher?

How do these monsters get away with it???

<shaking head>

In inner-city class teaching one can easily become an ogre. Years ago I found myself shouting at a boy 'sit down' as he came walking toward me - until the point of shouting in his face! It had no effect (he was special needs). At that point I realized there's just no point to that abuse - I've not raised my voice to an individual since. Nor, in one-to-one, had one even mildly upset - my heart just isn't in it.

Gary, this was the early 1960s. Nobody ever told the six year old me that the joke about some RC nuns using rulers as ...... uh ..... encouragement, wasn't a joke.

After that introduction to piano, which my mother wisely (and angrily) interrupted as soon as she discovered what was happening, it took almost three years before I would agree to trying another teacher. Fortunately, that kind-hearted gentleman was able to bring me back to the table of music. Unfortunately, I think starting at age nine is a bit too late. Oh well, in another life.

I've had some experiences with crying at lessons.. with some very wonderful teachers, who were just encouraging me to do my best, a bit puzzled at why I was having problems with something, and my own frustration just got in the way and I'd cry..

OTOH, the last teacher I had in my teens was so mean, negative and stern, that he made me quit. I never remember him having anything positive to say about my playing, and I finally gave up and quit. I remember him standing in the crook of the piano, smoking, with that mean screwed up face, as I must have butchered another run in a Beethoven sonata, and sneering, "This is NOT difficult!"...well, obviously, it was for me... When I returned to the piano as an adult, my teachers were all so positive, I just couldn't believe there were people like that out there.. OMG!

I guess this thread really could be reversed. How many of your students

bring YOU to tears???

I vowed to be a positive reinforcement type of teacher, but I've brought a student close to tears already. It appears to me that she has ADD or something, but she constantly interrupts (I've posted about her on this forum before) me, and distracts my flow. One day I simply stopped teaching and asked her "Why don't you listen to me?"..I know this wasn't the best thing to say, but believe me when I tell you, I simply asked... I didn't bark this question, or yell or anything. I just was so frustrated with her interruptions. She stopped, and hung her head. I figured the tears were coming, but they didn't fall. I continued, "I can tell you love to play the piano, but I can't teach you if you're not quiet when I speak." She said, "sometimes I don't understand". I felt horrible. But then,
I said, "If you don't understand, you can always just ask me.."
We did end the lesson on a good note (excuse the pun), but wow, I still feel badly about it.

BevP

BevP,
Obviously those words had to be said. Tears and conflict aren't always a bad thing. It is how they learn that what they are doing affects others. It is also how we grow as teachers. With my very frustrating ADD student (see the ADD thread) I've gotten to the point where whenever he is playing while I'm talking I don't speak, I say "SHH" really loudly. It saves my voice, and it's something different than my speaking voice so he pays attention to it. I think in your case, this needed to come out so that she knew to ask questions when she didn't understand, rather than distracting you.

I don't think I've ever made a student cry. I've had a few perfectionists who cried, but I teach them the same as I did others. One had a serious issue and cried at every little wrong note, even when I told her they weren't bad and that we could learn to be better from them. We soon stopped lessons, though, and I'm glad for that. I told her parents she needs counseling or it would only get worse. As for the other one that comes to mind, he started out being very nervous and upset about mistakes. He still seems to get nervous at lessons, but he's gotten much better about the mistakes. Again, it's nothing that I've said or done, it's the pressure they put on themselves.

Perhaps I should add this to the "unsolicited advice" for new teachers post.

The old adage, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar," applies to teaching as well.

Always, always, always find two or three items about a student's playing to praise, before you start working on the deficiencies.

I've made students cry roughly... 3-4 times in my short career so far. Here are the cases:

1. New student. Ran diagnostics on him. He was nervous, but was doing well so far. Got out some staff paper, quickly drew some notes, asked him to grab a pencil and name them. After a few minutes of shuffling he began crying because he couldn't name notes. Verdict: not my fault.

2. New student. Ran diagnostics on her. She was 4 at the time, and I warned the parent that it was unlikely she'd begin. Before the door even closed, I asked her, "Do you know your ABCs?" She nodded yes. "Could you show me please?" Cue screwing up of the face and bursting into tears. Verdict: not my fault.

3. New-ish student with a history of being squirmy and flighty on the bench. Spoiled rotten, always got his way - except in my studio. He gets on the bench, plays his song in an agonizingly slow time with no rhythm and many wrong notes. After he finishes, he looks at me and says, "Do I pass?" I tell him no. He turns on the waterworks. "But all - all my other t-t-t-teachers they - they pass me when I p-p-play!" I tell him I only pass if the piece is up to the standards of both student and teacher. More sniveling and crying ensues until I calmly put my foot down: keep whining, and the lesson is over immediately, or stop whining, and I will work with him to make the piece better. He shuts up. Verdict: not my fault.

4. Current student, has been mine for well over a year. Both of us were touchy that day, it seems; I get up in his business over a misunderstanding (for which I apologized profusely), he is unusually sassy. Working through a section, he gets frustrated with counting. I take down the difficulty, I encourage him, we're making slow progress until he just quits. "I can't do it!" he wails, and then starts whining about how hard it is. I calmly tell him that I understand, and I'm here to help, let's work through it slowly a little bit at a time. There's no need for whining. "But I WANT to whine!" he continues. I give him a stern look and tell him pointedly that I do not tolerate whining in my studio, and he can feel free to get out if he wants to keep up with his behavior. "I'm going to whine!"

"Okay, lesson's over, get out." His dad sighs. My student's eyes start to fill up with tears once he realizes I am not joking. Eventually I pass him a tissue and tell him that I won't ever give him a challenge he is absolutely unable to complete, and that I am here to help, support, and encourage him to improve. Lesson is definitely over, though. Verdict: kind of my fault.

Other than that, my students haven't cried. Myself, I've cried in enough lessons just because I've been too hard on myself (well, once a professor of mine told another professor within earshot of me that I was hopeless and my playing was going to give her a heart attack and kill her, and that caused me to cry, which then caused her to tell me not to cry, it's her that should be crying because of my playing).

This is something I constantly have to remind myself because I get so worked up about finding solutions to problems that I forget to congratulate them on what they do well. I'll say something like "good" or "ok" after they play, but then I go right onto the problem areas. There's always something to work on

As a child, I was often brought to tears by my teacher, (she was a ruler rapping type) but she was also an aquaintance of my mother's, so any complaining, and my mother would have backed her up.
My music teacher in school, for whom I have, and always will have, the greatest respect, had a habit of smashing old wax 78 records over the heads of pupils who were slacking.
Thankfully, I didn't suffer this.

I have one student ( a 12 year old girl) who sometimes tears up, more from her frustration at getting something wrong, than my approach.
Puberty is a difficult time for all young teens, with hormones raging all over the place.
I try to diffuse the situation, by totally changing the subject, and trying to lighten the conversation.
It seems to work.

An interesting aside is that classes of children are very much an emotional barometer. If you teach 30 at a go, 5 or 6 times a day they are pretty much always the same. You go into work feeling much as always and bang! You start reacting adversely. Then, as the dust settles you realize you must be ill, didn't sleep or have a big problem on your mind. If you're not 100% in health, they'll take no prisoners.

I feel about the same, but even an edge in the voice can be too much for the wrong person at the wrong time.

I think the biggest problem is going back at age nine. I was eight and a half when I started. There was not doubt as soon as I started that I could have begun years ago.

And I know all those stories about nuns and rulers is not joke. I've heard SO many adults talk about it. The mother of one of my favorite little girls was hit that way. No arguments from the mom about my having a better way of teaching!

Yes. The teacher resides is an interesting emotional domain. The non-conscious pupil takes in all.

This teacher is currently a violin professor at a major university:
When I was 16 and just started driving to my violin lessons, which were 45 minutes each way, this teacher took pride in making her lessons tough enough to make her students cry. One Saturday afternoon during my lesson, she said, "You are sounding so pathetic that it's not worth my time to teach you. My ears cannot stand the sound of your disgusting playing. Let's end this lesson and oh, could you take me over to the dress store downtown so I can pick up my dress for the concert tonight that I'm soloing in? At least you will have then done something right for this day".
Granted, not a ruler rap but....verbal abuse, yes.