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Piattino caster cups #1192979
05/04/09 08:32 AM
05/04/09 08:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 134
London, UK / Michigan, USA
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Nicholas B. Offline OP
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Nicholas B.  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2009
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London, UK / Michigan, USA
Hi all -

I've been working to prevent the vibrations caused by my Kawai RX-2 from vibrating through the hardwood floor in my London flat, and wanted to share my progress on the latter here. I'm sure many New Yorkers here can relate to this challenge! eek

After a bit of research into methods to buffer vibration, I ended up ordering a trio of Piattino caster cups direct from the manufacturer in Germany (I asked my dealer if he could supply them, and he could at a rather significant mark-up, so instead I just ordered them direct!).

[Linked Image]

They are beautifully crafted, and are comprised of a base and ring of dense polyurethane rubber, surrounded by polished brass. The manufacturer also supplied a bit of cut wool felt for the cup part to prevent the casters from scratching the metal (and provide additional insulation).

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

In order to gain additional insulation against vibrations, I also added a couple of thin layers beneath the cups. I asked the manufacturer whether this was advisable, and he suggested multiple thin layers rather than one larger layer. There is a lot of expensive vibration-absorbing material out there, but I thought I'd try something cheaper, but which I thought would be effective, in the first instance.

So I went to a local carpet/flooring shop,and picked up a spare roll of dense foamy flooring for £10. I cut squares, three for each cup, and placed them underneath. I didn't want anything too spongy which I would then feel whilst playing, and so far I am quite happy with this solution.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Although the cups raise the piano about 1 cm, and the flooring squares add another 2 mm, I compensate for the increased height of the pedas by sitting on a relatively thick (nearly 1 cm) wool rug, which of course also helps to absorb the airborne sound.

The cups are quite beefy, such that the whole caster fits snugly inside:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

So far, I am very happy with them - we'll see if the more sensitive of my neighbors notices... Two of my neighbors tell me they're happy for me to play 24 hours a day, but the third (beneath my flat) is less accommodating (but nice nonetheless!).

As I've mentioned here before, this piano is a practice piano and not used for performing, so I am very open to creative soundproofing solutions. Because the room has high (5 m) ceilings, even with the lid closed and a thick rug underneath, the overall sound of the piano still is quite full and spacious.

I found the manufacturer of Piattino cups to be very responsive and helpful throughout the ordering process. Feel free to send me a private message if you have any questions about the cups. You can easily find the manufacturer's website using Google, and there are a couple of other helpful posts about Piattinos on this and the tuner/technician's forum.

Cheers


Nicholas B.

Steinway B (1912 rebuilt)
Kawai RX-2 (2008)
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
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Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: Nicholas B.] #1193330
05/04/09 05:55 PM
05/04/09 05:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Nicholas,
you allude to a critical point that retaining good neighborly relations is important when the piano is located in an appartment or suite. If someone carries a real grudge, they will hear the cat walking across your carpeted floor and complain about it. Taking your neighbors' concerns seriously and instituting real measures to mitigate the problem can work wonders. These could include agreeing on reasonable playing times as well as steps to reduce the acoustic transmission of sound.

It must be noted that sound travels from one room to the next in different ways - through the air, and through direct transmission of the piano's vibration into the floor. While it is nearly impossible to cut off 100% of the sound being transmitted into a room below the piano, the Piattino acoustic caster cups are the "big guns" when it comes to putting an acoustic break between the instrument and the building. Installing these shows a lot of good will toward the neighbors' concerns.

Normally, additional padding which you added is not needed, as this somewhat negates the low-rise feature of the Piattinos.

There is more information here:
http://www.pianofortesupply.com/piattino1.html

Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: Supply] #1205650
05/25/09 06:02 PM
05/25/09 06:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 27
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PLV Offline
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If you use the piattino cups on an upright piano (without wheels), how much would they lift the piano? Is there a picture somewhere showing how they look like when used with an upright piano? I can only find pictures with grand pianos.
My neighbours just complained about my piano playing and I need a solution quickly.

Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: PLV] #1206255
05/26/09 04:57 PM
05/26/09 04:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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Being caster cups, the Piattinos are intended for use under pianos with casters.
However, there is no good reason that you cannot set the piano directly onto the cups. The cups are 45 mm high (= 1-3/4")

For use under an upright piano, Piattino caster cups are available in sets of four.

Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: Supply] #1206264
05/26/09 05:18 PM
05/26/09 05:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,119
Oakland
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BDB Offline
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If you have no wheels, you might consider using hockey pucks instead. They are shorter and cheaper, and you might be able to get them from your neighborhood sporting goods store.


Semipro Tech
Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: BDB] #1206270
05/26/09 05:29 PM
05/26/09 05:29 PM
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PLV Offline
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Originally Posted by BDB
If you have no wheels, you might consider using hockey pucks instead.

No offence, but I am not able to identify whether this is a joke or a serious suggestion... confused

How would hockey pucks provide any sound isolation?
Wouldn't there be risks that they crack under the weight?
I looked at some picture and they seem to be not completely flat on the top and bottom surfaces (but I might be wrong here), if so the piano could become dangerously unstable.

But of course I like the price of the hockey pucks...

Last edited by PLV; 05/26/09 05:38 PM.
Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: PLV] #1206279
05/26/09 05:51 PM
05/26/09 05:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Oakland
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BDB Offline
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A hockey puck is a 1" thick rubber disk. It should be flat enough and strong enough.


Semipro Tech
Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: BDB] #1206359
05/26/09 08:04 PM
05/26/09 08:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 307
Michigan
DarkGreenChocolate Offline
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If this works, couldn't you just cut a hole, or depression, into a hockey puck to accommodate casters?

What are the Piattinos made out of that makes them so effective?

Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: DarkGreenChocolate] #1206466
05/26/09 11:25 PM
05/26/09 11:25 PM
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Oakland
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I bet you would find it is pretty difficult to put the proper depression in a hockey puck.


Semipro Tech
Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: BDB] #1206525
05/27/09 01:30 AM
05/27/09 01:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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Perhaps the reason that Piattino caster cups cost a bit more than regular hockey pucks is that, as BDB correctly notes, (presumably from vast personal experience) it is very difficult to "put the proper depression in a hockey puck"

laugh

Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: Supply] #1206587
05/27/09 06:56 AM
05/27/09 06:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 383
Melbourne, Australia
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My problem with using caster cups is that they raise the piano too high. I then have to wind my chair up and then I have to move my chair out further in order to comfortably reach the pedals. Personally I DO NOT like caster cups, becuase they are often too high and cause these issues. It is IMPORTANT that the pianist sits at the right height. I have Shigeru cups and they are FAR TOO HIGH. So I removed them. Now I can play the piano with ease.


Kawai RX6G Grand
Bernstien/Hailun Europa BH - 1EP Upright
Roland HP-335 Digital Piano
Yamaha W7 Synthesizer
Roland E09W Interactive Arranger
Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: eightyeight_keys] #1207056
05/27/09 07:21 PM
05/27/09 07:21 PM
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Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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You are correct - height is critical.

That is one of the unique properties of Piattino caster cups: through their patented design, they insert 1-1/2 inches of acoustic insulation between the piano and floor, but raise the piano less than 3/8". That small amount is almost entirely negligible.

Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: Supply] #1207087
05/27/09 08:14 PM
05/27/09 08:14 PM
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Toman Offline
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One can always place a small rug around the pedals to make up for the rubber which is under the casters. Two rugs should even things out entirely.

Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: Supply] #1207246
05/28/09 05:06 AM
05/28/09 05:06 AM
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Piattino won in my case. I would feel too nervous with the hockey pucks.
Since I am in Europe I could order them directly from the producer. They had some where the brass got slightly scratched under production that I could buy for a discounted price...
Thanks to you all for your help!
:-)

Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: PLV] #1345529
01/10/10 09:45 AM
01/10/10 09:45 AM
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Texas
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I think the main issue is vibration transmitted to the floor so you need to isolate the piano from the floor as much as possible. Here is a company that makes vibration reduction rubber mats for industrial machinery. You could use this, cut it into appropriate size pieces, and use it to support the piano. You need to use some strong dense material that won't compress and lose effectiveness, carpet and carpet padding will compress quite a bit.

http://www.customrubbercorp.com/l_pads.htm


Re: Piattino caster cups [Re: Nicholas B.] #2801036
01/11/19 09:33 PM
01/11/19 09:33 PM
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Many vibration isolation products include both the rubber and the metal for noise reduction.

https://www.coirubber.com/rubber-to-metal-bonding/

If you're making it yourself, you might want to look for the rubber and metal parts separately, clean the surfaces well, then adhere them together with some really strong rubber adhesive.


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