Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia

A 6 year old piano is not a new piano, Forum dealer rationalizations notwithstanding. If you like the piano, offer a lower price when the Sales person contacts you. Chop off 2 grand. If he doesn't take the offer let him keep his 6 year old piano.

That's what I'd do.

Marty,I don't know about that. I distinctly remember talking to Bill B. and Craig Fehrenbacher in lenght at Namm 2002 when the GC1 was first introduced. I remember them stating that they were being assembled in Indonesia. Of course,soon later on they were upgraded and the manufacture was in Japan. Maybe that was there initial plan or early prototype model. That was 6 years ago and my memory is not what it used to be but.... I do remember discussions with them on the differences in the GC1 and the C1. Man, I hate being wrong!

Tom Lee is one of the biggest dealers in the world. In Music trades magazine edition global 200 Tom Lee has been #13 for as long as I can remember. Everyone above them are manufacturers.

Every new Yamaha instrument sold in Hong Kong goes through Tom Lee and I bet Yamaha has no issues with their dealer. I say this because I am sure Tom Lee will take care of the issue.

They are the biggest dealer in Western Canada, possibly all of Canada and I have personally seen them go far and beyond for their clients.

Just talk to the salesman and see what they can do for you.

"Steinway, the older the better" - What are you basing that on? Specifically and verifiably?

Yes you are mistaken concerning the GC1 despite your recollections of a conversation you had 7 years ago.

Having owned more Steinway grands than I can remember and having facilitated over 250-300 Steinway grand restorations,a pattern developes as for the potential performace outcome of a particular unrestored piano based on it's vintage.To do an accurate comparative analysis of the different eras and vintage of an unrestored"core" Steinway, you gotta do alot of them. Having worked with my exclusive rebuilder for over a decade,we've seen and done every model imaginable as for the modern Steinway grand many times over.(post 1900). My comment,of course is not all inclusive but is based on the analysis in the quantity and numbers we have done. Opinions and outcome will always differ due to the unpredictable nature of a hand made piano. Ask any seasoned reputable rebuilder as for whether they would prefer to restore a 1930 Steinway B or a 1980 Steinway B.

Cadillackid, In that you are a veteran of an authorized Yamaha dealer, maybe you could enlighten me as for the changes and upgrades of the GC1 since it's initial introduction in 2002 as in the action parts,soundboard,case parts and or the harp especially.
I will be very disappointed if my reputable Yamaha source tells me otherwise as for 100% Japanese manufacure of the original GC1.
Hey I've eaten crow before

To add to my previous post in that I did put emphasis on restoration of the the various vintages of the unrestored "core" Steinway. I make my assessment reflective also from my inventory of newer all "original" preowned Steinway grands not in need of restoration. Ex.2000 Steinway B,2003 Steinway B,2001 Steinway L,2005 Steinway M,1984 Steinway M,1985 Steinway L.etc.

This is sort of hijacking this thread but I'm the one who started the hijack .

As for my Steinway question, you did not answer it. You merely said "in my experience I've found the core..." I asked for specific reasons. The guff I usually hear is better case wood made from older growth trees, better craftsmanship, plates made by Steinway themselves and not an outside source blah, blah and blah.

Believe me, I'm a fan of new and old Steinways. What's gets me is this notion that the old Steinways are better and cost less and anyone who buys a new one is fool to be soon parted with their money.

As for the GC1, the only changes I know of are that the newer models have a soft close fallboard and true Sosteneto. Is every last screw made in Japan?? Was the wood harvested from Japanese forest?? I can't say for sure but doesn't validate your point.

Ok a few notes

1 - The piano isnt used unless it was delvered before. There are plenty of Steinways that sit on dealer showrooms for who knows how long before they sell. Pianos are not cars

2 - Where it was made or not made who cares, do you like the way the piano plays and sounds, if you do , buy it. Yamaha has good warranties, so who cares as long as you like the piano itself

3 - Price, good deal bad deal, a piano is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it

Bascailly, if you never looked up the serial number would you have noticed, sounds like you wouldnt have

PB,

I think you may be confusing the GC1 with the GB1. The timing would have worked as well.

To the original poster - please keep us posted.

Here's another take on this issue:

Since the piano was never delivered to the customer's home the deal was never 'consumed' or had reached de facto completion.

It's not proven that the serial number on the piano actually or eventually delivered to home was or would be same as the serial number indicated on the invoice: who's to say an error did *not* occur on paper?

Taking one step at a time is sometimes a better way to go than making all kinds of hurried assumptions.

There's a difference with a problem of a piano in my living room versus one that never got there.

Norbert

Don't except the 624XXX that one would have been made in 1967.

ddwchu,

Read this:

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...omment%20on%20Yamaha%20.html#Post1191881

Did he resurface?

LOL...you speak like someone's sunk to the bottom of the sea.

I am very appreciate the good advice that people on this forum have given to me. I contacted to Mr. Gorling. When things settle down I will let you all know the result. Kawai is my another choice.

I would be really annoyed if I purchased a piano, purported to be new, only to find it was a 6 year old one. This is misreprenstation. As piano broker points out, it will affect any resales down the line. I would follow the suggestion that you cancel the deal, and renegotiate. Gaby tu

Did you get your piano?

It's not always a matter of having the highest serial number, since that one may be rough, just out of the box and unprepped.

I'm saying this in order to have you make sure that the piano has the proper make-ready service done by the dealer, as this is very important.

I just came back from the music store and would like you all know the result which was that I cancelled the order and got prepaid deposit CAD9109.45 back to my credit card. When I contacted to Mr. Gorling I asked for a new model GC1 and a reasonable price. Tom Lee agreed to give me a new model GC1 which would be available in this coming September. Since I traded in the upright C109PE bought in July 2005, they would give me a free loan GC1 until the new one coming in September. The price still must be CAD19498.00. After I knowing that in OT dealers offer CAD14900.00 for a new model GC1. I don't want to pay so high . But if you want a new Yamaha here you must go Tom Lee. So I may look for something else.

DDWCHU, good to hear you got your money back. Speaks well of Tom Lee that they acknowledged the issue.

As for the above quote, just a couple of comments...

While it may be true that many Steinways sit for who knows how long before being sold, it doesn't follow that the Steinway dealers in question hide the age of these pianos from prospective buyers. I wouldn't make the assumption that they do. Most people, if asked if they would buy a 6 year old piano for the price of a brand new one would say no. The idea that a piano is new, by definition, simply because it hasn't been sold is bizarre and exists in no other business to my knowledge. How far into the past could this nonsense be extended before even the most committed would admit the folly? Ten years? Twenty? A hundred? This is one area where the current piano business model could benefit from an overhaul. Note, I am not saying that an unsold piano that was built a few years ago should be heavily discounted in every case. It would depend on design changes and improvements since the piano was built among other things. Full disclosure is all that's needed. Selling an old piano as new is misleading and is not a good business practice.

The first thing one does when evaluating a used piano is to run the serial number to determine it's age. I recommend the same thing be done when evaluating a new piano.

As for it not mattering where the piano was made, well, I'm afraid that doesn't wash either, at least not with me. Most people express a preference for manufactured goods from Japan over other parts of Asia, pianos included. This is why Japanese made goods are always clearly identified as such and why they command a higher price in the market. In this example, the dealers on the Forum can't even agree on where the thing was made. Not a good sign.

$19500 for a GC1 is a rip off! I don't believe their "prep" worth anywhere near $5000.