Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
54 registered members (akc42, CyberGene, anotherscott, accordeur, astrotoy, Bill McKaig,RPT, dbudde, Ankee, 14 invisible), 532 guests, and 277 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: ddwchu] #1190071 04/29/09 06:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,290
Starting Over Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,290
A 6 year old piano is not a new piano, Forum dealer rationalizations notwithstanding. If you like the piano, offer a lower price when the Sales person contacts you. Chop off 2 grand. If he doesn't take the offer let him keep his 6 year old piano.

That's what I'd do.


Buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it.
Will Rogers

[Linked Image]
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: Marty Flinn] #1190286 04/29/09 11:46 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
Originally Posted by Marty Flinn
The GC1 has always been made in Japan. Some wood-look designer cabinets were finished in Thomaston, GA, USA the FP and G models.

The only Yamaha branded grands made in their Indonesian factory are the GB1, older GA1E, DGA1E and DGB1.
Marty,I don't know about that. confusedI distinctly remember talking to Bill B. and Craig Fehrenbacher in lenght at Namm 2002 when the GC1 was first introduced. I remember them stating that they were being assembled in Indonesia. Of course,soon later on they were upgraded and the manufacture was in Japan. Maybe that was there initial plan or early prototype model. That was 6 years ago and my memory is not what it used to be but.... I do remember discussions with them on the differences in the GC1 and the C1. Man, I hate being wrong! grin

Last edited by pianobroker; 04/29/09 11:48 PM.

www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: salzdt] #1190289 04/29/09 11:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,752
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,752
Originally Posted by salzdt

The dealer sounds very unethical, and I'm sure Yamaha would not appreciate him selling a new piano that is six years old.


Tom Lee is one of the biggest dealers in the world. In Music trades magazine edition global 200 Tom Lee has been #13 for as long as I can remember. Everyone above them are manufacturers.

Every new Yamaha instrument sold in Hong Kong goes through Tom Lee and I bet Yamaha has no issues with their dealer. I say this because I am sure Tom Lee will take care of the issue.

They are the biggest dealer in Western Canada, possibly all of Canada and I have personally seen them go far and beyond for their clients.

Just talk to the salesman and see what they can do for you.







Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook

Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: pianobroker] #1190734 04/30/09 03:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 151
P
Pianohero Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 151
"Steinway, the older the better" - What are you basing that on? Specifically and verifiably?

Yes you are mistaken concerning the GC1 despite your recollections of a conversation you had 7 years ago.

Originally Posted by pianobroker
If I'm not mistaken,a 6 year old GC1 was not even of Japanese manufacture.I may be wrong.The Yamaha guys would know exactly when that transition was. In the beggining years ago they were assembled in Indonesia.Since than,they have been upgraded considerably.
Buying a six year old piano "brand new" will definitely affect your resale value later in that the prospective piano buyer always scrutinize the age of preowned asian pianos.Steinway,the older the better. wink

Last edited by Cadillackid; 04/30/09 03:45 PM.

Former salesperson for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe, Kimball, Charles R. Walter, Mason & Hamlin, Roland and Korg.
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: Pianohero] #1191016 05/01/09 01:09 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
Having owned more Steinway grands than I can remember and having facilitated over 250-300 Steinway grand restorations,a pattern developes as for the potential performace outcome of a particular unrestored piano based on it's vintage.To do an accurate comparative analysis of the different eras and vintage of an unrestored"core" Steinway, you gotta do alot of them. Having worked with my exclusive rebuilder for over a decade,we've seen and done every model imaginable as for the modern Steinway grand many times over.(post 1900). My comment,of course is not all inclusive but is based on the analysis in the quantity and numbers we have done. Opinions and outcome will always differ due to the unpredictable nature of a hand made piano. Ask any seasoned reputable rebuilder as for whether they would prefer to restore a 1930 Steinway B or a 1980 Steinway B.

Cadillackid, In that you are a veteran of an authorized Yamaha dealer, maybe you could enlighten me as for the changes and upgrades of the GC1 since it's initial introduction in 2002 as in the action parts,soundboard,case parts and or the harp especially.
I will be very disappointed if my reputable Yamaha source tells me otherwise as for 100% Japanese manufacure of the original GC1.
Hey I've eaten crow before grin

Last edited by pianobroker; 05/01/09 01:14 AM.

www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: pianobroker] #1191222 05/01/09 11:18 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
To add to my previous post in that I did put emphasis on restoration of the the various vintages of the unrestored "core" Steinway. I make my assessment reflective also from my inventory of newer all "original" preowned Steinway grands not in need of restoration. Ex.2000 Steinway B,2003 Steinway B,2001 Steinway L,2005 Steinway M,1984 Steinway M,1985 Steinway L.etc. wink


Last edited by pianobroker; 05/01/09 11:33 AM.

www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: pianobroker] #1191271 05/01/09 12:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 151
P
Pianohero Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 151
This is sort of hijacking this thread but I'm the one who started the hijack smile.

As for my Steinway question, you did not answer it. You merely said "in my experience I've found the core..." I asked for specific reasons. The guff I usually hear is better case wood made from older growth trees, better craftsmanship, plates made by Steinway themselves and not an outside source blah, blah and blah.

Believe me, I'm a fan of new and old Steinways. What's gets me is this notion that the old Steinways are better and cost less and anyone who buys a new one is fool to be soon parted with their money.

As for the GC1, the only changes I know of are that the newer models have a soft close fallboard and true Sosteneto. Is every last screw made in Japan?? Was the wood harvested from Japanese forest?? I can't say for sure but doesn't validate your point.

Last edited by Cadillackid; 05/01/09 04:38 PM.

Former salesperson for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe, Kimball, Charles R. Walter, Mason & Hamlin, Roland and Korg.
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: Pianohero] #1191296 05/01/09 01:22 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 17
J
JPM1730 Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 17
Ok a few notes

1 - The piano isnt used unless it was delvered before. There are plenty of Steinways that sit on dealer showrooms for who knows how long before they sell. Pianos are not cars

2 - Where it was made or not made who cares, do you like the way the piano plays and sounds, if you do , buy it. Yamaha has good warranties, so who cares as long as you like the piano itself

3 - Price, good deal bad deal, a piano is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it

Bascailly, if you never looked up the serial number would you have noticed, sounds like you wouldnt have

Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: JPM1730] #1191646 05/02/09 05:47 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,640
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,640
PB,

I think you may be confusing the GC1 with the GB1. The timing would have worked as well.

To the original poster - please keep us posted.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: Rich Galassini] #1191737 05/02/09 10:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,543
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,543
Here's another take on this issue:

Since the piano was never delivered to the customer's home the deal was never 'consumed' or had reached de facto completion.

It's not proven that the serial number on the piano actually or eventually delivered to home was or would be same as the serial number indicated on the invoice: who's to say an error did *not* occur on paper?

Taking one step at a time is sometimes a better way to go than making all kinds of hurried assumptions.

There's a difference with a problem of a piano in my living room versus one that never got there.

Norbert



Last edited by Norbert; 05/02/09 10:41 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: ddwchu] #1191852 05/02/09 02:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,752
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,752
Originally Posted by ddwchu
After I told them that I checked this serial number with Yamaha Canada the seals person gave me a couple of new serial number like 624XXX and 625XXXX. I picked serial number 6253026 which was made in 2008.


Don't except the 624XXX that one would have been made in 1967. grin



Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook

Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: ddwchu] #1191899 05/02/09 02:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,044
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by ddwchu
hi, pno
Thank you for reading my post. Do you know what price is reasonable for a new GC1 in Canadian dollar? I am thinking to cancel the order before they deliver the piano tomorrow.


ddwchu,

Read this:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...omment%20on%20Yamaha%20.html#Post1191881


♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: pno] #1191911 05/02/09 03:12 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,840
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012
1000 Post Club Member
Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,840
Did he resurface?








Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: Strings & Wood] #1191969 05/02/09 04:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,044
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by Carl Mc
Did he resurface?



LOL...you speak like someone's sunk to the bottom of the sea.


♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: pno] #1192203 05/02/09 10:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
D
ddwchu Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
D
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
I am very appreciate the good advice that people on this forum have given to me. I contacted to Mr. Gorling. When things settle down I will let you all know the result. Kawai is my another choice.

Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: pianobroker] #1192216 05/02/09 10:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,522
G
gabytu Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,522
I would be really annoyed if I purchased a piano, purported to be new, only to find it was a 6 year old one. This is misreprenstation. As piano broker points out, it will affect any resales down the line. I would follow the suggestion that you cancel the deal, and renegotiate. Gaby tu

Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: gabytu] #1195110 05/07/09 01:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 806
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 806
Did you get your piano?

It's not always a matter of having the highest serial number, since that one may be rough, just out of the box and unprepped.

I'm saying this in order to have you make sure that the piano has the proper make-ready service done by the dealer, as this is very important.


Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Kawai, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: Nick Mauel] #1195340 05/07/09 08:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
D
ddwchu Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
D
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
I just came back from the music store and would like you all know the result which was that I cancelled the order and got prepaid deposit CAD9109.45 back to my credit card. When I contacted to Mr. Gorling I asked for a new model GC1 and a reasonable price. Tom Lee agreed to give me a new model GC1 which would be available in this coming September. Since I traded in the upright C109PE bought in July 2005, they would give me a free loan GC1 until the new one coming in September. The price still must be CAD19498.00. After I knowing that in OT dealers offer CAD14900.00 for a new model GC1. I don't want to pay so high . But if you want a new Yamaha here you must go Tom Lee. So I may look for something else.

Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: JPM1730] #1195531 05/08/09 08:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,290
Starting Over Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,290
Originally Posted by JPM1730
Ok a few notes

1 - The piano isnt used unless it was delvered before. There are plenty of Steinways that sit on dealer showrooms for who knows how long before they sell. Pianos are not cars

2 - Where it was made or not made who cares, do you like the way the piano plays and sounds, if you do , buy it. Yamaha has good warranties, so who cares as long as you like the piano itself

3 - Price, good deal bad deal, a piano is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it

Bascailly, if you never looked up the serial number would you have noticed, sounds like you wouldnt have


DDWCHU, good to hear you got your money back. Speaks well of Tom Lee that they acknowledged the issue.

As for the above quote, just a couple of comments...

While it may be true that many Steinways sit for who knows how long before being sold, it doesn't follow that the Steinway dealers in question hide the age of these pianos from prospective buyers. I wouldn't make the assumption that they do. Most people, if asked if they would buy a 6 year old piano for the price of a brand new one would say no. The idea that a piano is new, by definition, simply because it hasn't been sold is bizarre and exists in no other business to my knowledge. How far into the past could this nonsense be extended before even the most committed would admit the folly? Ten years? Twenty? A hundred? This is one area where the current piano business model could benefit from an overhaul. Note, I am not saying that an unsold piano that was built a few years ago should be heavily discounted in every case. It would depend on design changes and improvements since the piano was built among other things. Full disclosure is all that's needed. Selling an old piano as new is misleading and is not a good business practice.

The first thing one does when evaluating a used piano is to run the serial number to determine it's age. I recommend the same thing be done when evaluating a new piano.

As for it not mattering where the piano was made, well, I'm afraid that doesn't wash either, at least not with me. Most people express a preference for manufactured goods from Japan over other parts of Asia, pianos included. This is why Japanese made goods are always clearly identified as such and why they command a higher price in the market. In this example, the dealers on the Forum can't even agree on where the thing was made. Not a good sign.

Last edited by Starting Over; 05/08/09 09:31 AM.

Buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it.
Will Rogers

[Linked Image]
Re: tom Lee try to sell me a 6 year old GC1 as new pia [Re: ddwchu] #1195561 05/08/09 09:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,044
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by ddwchu
The price still must be CAD19498.00. After I knowing that in OT dealers offer CAD14900.00 for a new model GC1. I don't want to pay so high . But if you want a new Yamaha here you must go Tom Lee. So I may look for something else.


$19500 for a GC1 is a rip off! I don't believe their "prep" worth anywhere near $5000.


♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Help~~ Sticky key Young Chang PG185
by Emmazhaonc - 12/06/19 11:43 AM
Fix Kawai CA97 (GF1 and GF2) stuck key (Repairing guide)
by David Izquierdo - 12/06/19 11:10 AM
What do I tell the tech
by Calllu - 12/06/19 09:30 AM
Hailun/Feurich 218
by Tenor70 - 12/06/19 06:06 AM
Still discouraged
by Mils - 12/06/19 01:48 AM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics195,531
Posts2,899,142
Members95,167
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3