Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Looking for ideas on why to/not to look at hands

Wonder why there is a little box with a small red x under my name. Curious- don't see this icon in the other posts. Answered my own question. Thanks

There's a significant difference between upright pianos and grand pianos insofar as the location of the book rack. When I used to practice on an upright, it was easy to read the notes and look at the fingers _almost_ simultaneously. I remember having difficulty playing on my teacher's grand because I actually needed to take my eyes off the score to look at my fingers, then it'd be hard to go back to the score to find out where I left off.

I think I started to train myself to stare at the score 95% of the time once I got a grand. I would only look down at the keys if there's a large leap or an awkward shift of hand positions. Of course, if the music is well practiced and memorized, I'd look at the keys more for a sense of security.

Just the other day, I was downloading music off the computer at school, and I had to stare at the computer monitor about three feet to the right of the piano. I surprised myself by being able to play through a sonata movement without looking at the keys at all. I could estimate the distance between keys, even for some large leaps.

That experience gave me an idea. For my "memorizers" or "finger-starers," I will print a copy of their music, and tape it three feet above the piano on the wall. That way, they'll have to look up to see their notes--making it more difficult for them to go back and forth between the score and the keys, so they'll just give up looking at the keys.

Oh I like that! I'm going to try it. I hate using the "bib" that covers their hands, but will occasionally pull it out if needed. This seems less like you're "shaming" them. IMO

I somehow memorize the piece I'm working on, so my teacher asked that I learn to look at the music and I'm not sure what word to use but take a quick look at my fingers - I guess the best way to say it is like a acompianist would.

That takes mucho time to learn - when I lose my place as I play, it would make it easier if I could take a quick look and keep going.

My father was an acompianist and could play anything that was in front of him. It's strange that what looked so easy is so hard to learn.

If during early on lessons with a new beginner you have an opportunity to place a blank white paper between their eyes and their hands, but asking them to keep their eyes on the page to read the music with, you will find a cure for darting eyes from music to hands on the keyboard.

You will give them a great piece of information - that fingers work perfectly without our "supervision" (pun there, isn't there!) The eyes job is on the music, tracking the instructions, and the fingers are independantly working from a 5 finger position base which fits the beginning level of music. Each finger is accounted for in a "fixed" in a white key natural position before fingers reach out and up to other notes. Fixed does not imply any tension, it is fixed in position, but is neutral until energy in thinking turns thought to movement ("act"ion!)

To relieve them of this concern lasts a lifetime, and I think this is the instant in which hand and eye coordination gets their liberated start in independance.

It's an important step and a necessary step, and they don't tell you this in the methods. There's whole much more missing in method books, too, if you think about it.

I'll leave the why of not looking to you, it is the how (solution) not to look that is the focal point of building better habits.

Betty Patnude

I found covering their hands only works while you're covering their hands. That's children for you.

As reading improves, the number of times people look at their hands descreases, and the "looks" are quicker, also more peripheral.

For most people looking less seems to be an automatic or natural process. I never think about it myself except when demonstrating to students that I can and often do play without looking at my hands.

Yes, that's true. BUT it proves that it can be done.The argument I hear most often is "I can't do that".

The problem with doing something just because it proves that something can be done is that you have to be very careful not to introduce tension while making the point.

I think as people become good readers, they automatically look at their hands less. Furthermore, I believe early emphasis on too much memorizing is the number one thing that kills fluent sight-reading.

Yes, but it has no effect on their behaviour.

I'm not a teacher, just a normal student. I wanted to ask if remembering Scales and Arpeggios without looking helps get around the keys when playing music while sight reading?

I just wanted to see what everyone might say. Because it totally helped for me.

That really is a good technique to work on ahvat.

A few years ago, when I was in my teens, I lost most of the sight in my right eye. I look at the keyboard as little as possible, because my depth perception is so poor. I can be looking directly at a key and still miss! When I do look, I make furtive glances. For example, for a large leap, I'll look at the target note, but I will look away before my finger reaches the note. I also use peripheral vision whenever possible. Concerning the keyboard, I guess I trust my sense of touch more than my sense of sight.

But I'm not sure that's bad.

If you can play without looking, you have learned keyboard geometry. The purpose of not looking is to learn keyboard geometry. Looking probably slows down acquisition of this essential skill.

But once learned, it probably doesn't matter much if we do look. So Betty's approach is still a valid one even if the not looking behavior is not maintained long term.

Hi, Tim!

Thanks for commenting on validity of my approach of holding a blank white page above the student's arms and hands so that their view of their hands and fingers are blocked and they can't see the keys.

I was disappointed to hear the kbk feels no success with that suggestion and has discounted it as lasting only in the moment hands are actually covered.

Kbk is a succinct poster, so I imagine that he doesn't overuse words either, and maybe he has placed the paper between vision and hands before, but made no comment at all to the student. Can you imagine that as a possibility?

Well "Chatty Cathy" here talks it up. "Look Heather! I've covered your hands so you can't see them, and my goodness, you can keep right on playing just fine. Isn't that amazing! (Exaggeration and emphatic 'a-mazzzzzz-ing'). Now you won't have to worry ever again about watching your hands to find the keys on the keyboard, you can keep your eyes on the music while you play. Good for you! Your eyes won't get lost on the page anymore. See you brain can find the notes for you and you won't have to worry about them. Yay!" (Whoop-di-do!)

The kids respond with grins and a look like "I knew it all the time!" Adults, notice it happened and think they were lucky this time. They want to roll the film again to make sure make sure that's possible. Only with lots of encouragement are they not going to supervise their hands and fingers on the keyboard. They pay as much attention to the hands indecision as they do to the written page when was indecision too.

I think the fast track for my kids is because they are willing to play using finger numbers on the page for everything within a position. We always have fingers planned on the paper....with more experience, the fingers know their place when in a position...and we don't need fingers at all when the music is conjunct. When there are skips we plot the distance using |\ or |/ to show expansion between fingers and we finger number the notes involved, ex" fingers 1 and 2, but a 4 note distance.

Only after all 5 finger positions and some one octave scales and lots of music in positions and conjunct first, then played with expansion and changing hand positions, can a student do "blind" selection of keys.

I use the lever of the arm - opening and closing horizontally on the keyboard, and the fingers themselves to act as a measuring device to determine how much distance is involved from here to there....calculations are going on constantly. They don't teach this (inner thinking!) stuff in the methods, and not a lot of teachers or pianists are aware this is a substudy, but I think it is. It's part of the human being lessoned to improve his capacity to play the piano.

There is a lot going on beneath the surface.

We have to liberate our students and give them tools for movement.

This eye/ear/hand coordination and reading of music from a printed page is a multi-tasking event. What we don't do a lot of is plan the impulse which is a finger reaction, plan the duration. We have to train everything into place in the thinking system that creates our movement. All of our resources are guided by our brain.

We've got to give ourselves the tools to operate the human.

Put these kinds of things on project status in your lessons. Help them "connect the dots".

Have a good morning everyone! I am!

6:58 AM looking forward to coffee time! Yes! Now! Cinnamon in the coffee pot is something I really look forward to!

Betty

Betty, can you elucidate on this part because I'd like to make sure I understand it right:

You would be talking about the forearm that hinges on to the upper arm at the elbow, correct? And when we move to new hand positions, for the hand to get there, it would be via this lever for the most part? The other possibility would be moving the whole arm from the shoulder or leaning toward the position bodily, either of which one might mistakenly do.

And I am thinking that if we sit at the wrong distance, this lever will also not work well. If I am too far I'll have to keep my arm straight and it can't "lever". This is no longer about sight reading but it "hinges" on it.

KS

You've got it, Keystring!

If you measure the keyboard with a ruler you will find the same distance between 2 of the same note names at an octave, yes? This is a fixed distance at which most adult hands open and the 1 and 5 fingers touch down on the octave notes (8). No effort usually.

Using the 5 finger positions to "count" 5 fingers already known, the changing of the distance between the thumb and 2nd finger allows us to leave space on the keyboard and we can move from 5 fingers on 5 notes, to 5 fingers on 6 notes, 7 notes, 8 notes.

We have to "play" with this, but ultimately, we find a measuring device on the keyboard for finding notes more than 5 steps accurately:

12345 is the constant fingering, but the distances of finger 2 from finger 1 create the natural "measuring".
12 12 12 12345
CD CE CF CGABC

In using the keyboard like a "train track", lightly rest finger tips (end of bone touches key with a "good" knuckles rounded hand position)in a 5 finger positon. Up and down the track several times, stop, start, zip along, go slowly, watch how your "forearm" (encompassing your finger to elbow area follows your "train". The upper arm follows along effortlessly.) You can travel a lot of keys with fingertips on the "track". Do this also with the LH being the train.
The train starts at the "station", which is your center/middle C with finger number 1 on it.

Travel the rails from Middle C and stop on the next C with finger 1. Notice the angle of your arm to your body, go to the higher C, experiment with different notes. Do the same process with the LH. The distances will be the same C to C, etc. Exercise the LH alone doing these "games". Then do hands together, keeping them moving at the same speed. A train going North while another train is going South (opposites) so to speak.

Now. From C to C, get off the railroad track and use an "airplane" to lift you off from one "airport" and land at the next "airport" (the C's) Going up the keyboard would be from San Jose,(CA) to San Francisco, then on to Portland Oregon, and on to Seattle (4 C's). Isn't this fun! From middle C downward would be named San Jose, LA, San Diego. (You have to find some cities on the map that align closely.) To play airplane, you lift your arm to create an arc where the rising arc side is as closely duplicated by your falling arc side.

You are training your arm to arrive at distance of 8 notes away and you will be able to command a note in the next register on instand demand because you have worked with the angle of the elbow. The elbow will stop exactly where it is needed when changing octaves.

It's possible to do longer distances, 2 octaves, and 3 with the same method. You might have to think international travel destinations if you wanted to name them. Or planets in the universe.

Have I helped define this for you?

If you, or anyone else is trying this, let me know how it goes.

Remember keep your hands, arms, light, let your arms hang from your shoulders, and you can do this with a floppy hand at first doing an approximate representation, but you should go to using the thumb as the locater for C's definitely - it is a landmark in our music and on our keyboard. Then try other fingers "training" or "flying" to other "cities". (Don't you love that pun on "train-ing". (Laughter!)

Your perception about centering at the music, at the keyboard is very very important. Without being in alignment with the keyboard, you will sit in a different bench position each time you play, and you will never achieve consistancy in motion and distance with your hands without having you centered to Middle C.

Now, who among us knows this and uses it already?

If I've taught anyone something wonderful, let's celebrate!

Good luck, Keystring!

Betty

I couldn't be more in disagreement with this assertion.

Even a simple score is the expression of the genious of the composer. There is so much to try to understand and to express. It is never learned, we are always learning. In general one should be reading the music, not watching his hands.

Uh, which assertion?

That learning keyboard geometry is good?

That looking inhibits the learning process?

That deliberately not looking, as in shielding with paper, may enhance the learning process for selected individuals?

That once learned, keyboard geometry knowledge does not disappear if later we sometimes look at the keyboard?

Can't tell what you're disagreeing with.

I don 't agree that the purpose of not looking at the keyboard is to learn keyboard geometry.