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Contemporary piano music: Two questions. #1182158 04/17/09 09:48 AM
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I've been following threads on this forum for a couple of months now and have become painfully aware that my knowledge of modern compositions for piano is woefully inadequate. I'd like to change this. Hence my questions:-

Which works composed post 1960's do you particularly enjoy playing or listening to?

Which composers/works of piano music composed post 1960's would you place on a par with (or better than) the piano music of Bela Bartok and Dmitri Shostakovich?

Thanks.


Rob
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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: rrb] #1182174 04/17/09 10:19 AM
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Here's my list of works that qualify for both questions (in my book at least, even though I don't think too highly of Shostakovich's piano works aside from the First Piano Sonata):

Adams:
Phrygian Gates (1977)

Barber:
Piano Concerto (1962) -- my personal favorite of all of Barber's works

Carter:
Night Fantasies (1980)

Corigliano:
Piano Concerto (1967)

Ginastera:
Piano Concerto No. 1 (1961) -- a very effective work
Piano Concerto No. 2 (1972)
Piano Sonata No. 2 (1981) -- a sort of Rite of Spring for solo piano
Piano Sonata No. 3 (1982)

Ligeti:
Etudes book I (1985)
Etudes book II (1994)
Etudes book III (2001)
Piano Concerto (1988)

Magnus Lindberg:
Piano Concerto (1994)

Lutoslawski:
Piano Concerto (1988) -- an extremely fine and effective work

Messiaen:
Petites esquisses d'oiseaux (1985)

Rautavaara:
Piano Concerto No. 1 (1969)
Piano Concerto No. 2 (1989) -- my personal favorite of his piano concerti
Piano Concerto No. 3 (1998) -- the most "accessible" of his piano concerti
Piano Sonata No. 2 (1970)

Tippett:
Piano Sonata No. 2 (1962)
Piano Sonata No. 3 (1972-73) -- my personal favorite of his piano sonatas
Piano Sonata No. 4 (1983-84)


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Die Karpfen viel fressen,
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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: rrb] #1182175 04/17/09 10:21 AM
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Here are some quick thoughts:

Some of Glass's stuff is fun to play - I particularly like Mad Rush and the Opening from Glassworks. There's also the "Trilogy" Sonata, and "How Now?". The piece "Two Pages" for piano is an example of his early, very rigorous, process-based minimalism. I don't play it very often, but enjoy it when I do.

Arvo Pärt's "Für Alina" and the "Variations for Arinuschka's Convalescence" are wonderful - and technically undemanding.

I absolutely adore Ustvolskaya - particularly the 6th sonata as you'll see from my signature - but it's pretty brutal stuff, physically demanding, and probably not to everyone's taste.

Feldman's "For Bunita Marcus" (1985?) is quite an experience, playing-wise, but it's LONG - 70+ minutes.

Schnittke's sonatas are great but pretty sombre affairs. I've the score of the first but haven't learned it yet.

I wouldn't care to try and "rate" the above composers - they're all marvellous in their own right. Glass perhaps less so - I think of him more as a "pop" composer but still fun.


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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: StuartEstell] #1182193 04/17/09 10:51 AM
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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: LiszThalberg] #1182210 04/17/09 11:13 AM
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Nikolai Kapustin...

He's composed some nice preludes, etudes, and sonatas. I have not listened to his works for piano and orchestra, but there should also be some good material.

Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: Erus] #1182229 04/17/09 11:57 AM
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There are too many to list--I really have no biases towards any sort of music, at least until I've heard enough of it to intelligently point out specific reasons for why it doesn't do anything for me. Also, I'm not really into ranking composers against one another, but I'll list some of my favorite contemporary composers anyway, as well as a few specific works (also I'm not going to look up exact dates but they're all relatively near mid-century):

Finnissy: English Country Tunes, Verdi and Gershwin Transcriptions, Snowdrift, all.fall.down (etc.--I haven't heard a Finnissy piece I didn't like yet, and I really would consider him among the top piano composers ever)

Dusapin: Etudes, Piano Concerto

Ferneyhough: Icon-Epigram-Lemma

Xenakis: Mists, a.r., Herma

Rzewski: Piano Ballades, People United Variations, Squares

Barrett: Tracts

Bolcom: 12 Etudes, 12 New Etudes, Piano Concerto, plenty of others

Corigliano: Piano Concerto, Etude-Fantasy

Barber: Piano Concerto, Sonata

Bernstein: Age of Anxiety (Symphony No. 2 for Piano/Orchestra), Piano Sonata, Touches

Berio: Petite Suite, 6 Encores, Piano Sonata, Sequenza

Boulez: Piano Sonatas, etc.

Bussotti: Pour Clavier, Sonata Gioacchina, pretty much everything

Ligeti: Piano works

Flynn: Trinity

Spassov: Waterfalls

Skalkottas: Everything I've heard so far (another one I'd easily rank among the top piano composers)--especially the 32 Pieces and the etudes

Yim: :[ten]dril

These are just a handful that came to mind. There are some great composers out there today and some phenomenal pieces too--just keep exploring and listening!

Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: rrb] #1182284 04/17/09 01:12 PM
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Toru Takemitsu is the greatest!


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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: Coolkid70] #1182602 04/17/09 08:55 PM
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All great recommendations. I would also add the wonderful piano music of Lowell Liebermann (Sonatas, Nocturnes, Gargoyles), Carl Vine (5 Bagtelles and three piano sonatas) and one of my favorite pieces (written in 1963),Sofia Gubaidulina's Chaccone.


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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: rrb] #1182633 04/17/09 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rrb
I've been following threads on this forum for a couple of months now and have become painfully aware that my knowledge of modern compositions for piano is woefully inadequate. I'd like to change this. Hence my questions:-

Which works composed post 1960's do you particularly enjoy playing or listening to?

Which composers/works of piano music composed post 1960's would you place on a par with (or better than) the piano music of Bela Bartok and Dmitri Shostakovich?

Thanks.


As some may know, I do play contemporary music, and used to be quite a devout of post-Schoenberg music, although I've re-explored romanticism and classicism all to my liking in the last 4 years or so.

Well, first of all, I would not dare to put anything on a par with Bartok or Shostakovich, simply because there are tons of compositiong out there that I think to be FAR superior than some of the works that those 2 have written. Shostakovich isn't too impressive either in his piano compositions as is Bartok (especially the etudes!) ...

'Goldberg' made some nice suggetions already although some of those pieces are too long to handble, especially for someone unaccustomed to modern music. Another reason why it can be quite hard to comment on so much music is the absence of recordings to listen to. Some works have simply never even been heard but only mentioned. We also tend to judge a composer by 1 work, and that can usually be hurtful to the person exploring music. If you based your opinion of Ligeti on his early electronic work, nobody would give a 'darn' about him. There are many pieces out there that I do enjoy, and I also play them, and I'll briefly explain why to help you personally understand my vision (I suppose).

Michael Finnissy : English Country Tunes - This is a piece, according to Michael, not meant to be "complex but highly detailed". What we hear is just an extremely detailed work, and it is Michael's vision of England. There aren't exactly tunes or folk material in the work, but more musical representations of an England that he no longer sees. I think it to be Finnissy's most important piano work.

Iannis Xenakis : Herma & Evryali - These 2 piano works are notorious for their pianistic demands. I play 'Herma' but I've never bothered with Evryali. One must keep in mind that the 2 pieces are composed of mathematical equations. Xenakis did make sarcastic allusions to possible tonalities, but the work in itself is all mathematical. I always believe that people are not just about happiness and love, but that there is also anger, spite, and a smudge of madness in all of us. Tomas Vasary once mentioned that art is inspired by love, but I do not agree with that. Works like Herma and Evryali I think can possibly only appeal to a contemporary crowd or anyone with a passion for exciting and a bit 'wild' music. Herma is quite crazy and the tension that it produces is unbelievable. I have always felt that it is better to play it than to listen it, simply because there are so many emotions running through me when I play it. The work really takes something out of you, something bad. xD

Jay Alan Yim : :[ten]dril & Timescreens 1 & 2 - The 3 pieces are seriously very important contemporary works. The 'Timescreens' are filled with passion and a soundworld reminiscent of Mosolov in his avant-garde style. ':[ten]dril' is a work written in only 1 line (1-part invention) and it is a continuous melodic line being explored from every angle. The resonance is what creates the mood for this piece along with the masterful melodic writing from Yim's part. It can be a melancholy piece and exciting at the same time. I've been playing this piece for a while already and I have always thought it to be a great example of a good contemporary work. This work is very tonal, although its tone is not always clearly heard because of the crazy virtuoso writing in the top register of the piano. Unfortunately for a pianist attempting to play it, it is an unbelievably difficult work to perform well. I practiced an awful lot after the 1st 2 pages or so.

There are many more works to consider that I cannot go into detail. Sciarrino's 5 piano sonatas are highly original and beautiful works. The 4th is highlighted because of its sound; its cluster madness. There are tons of pieces by Feldman that I adore, including his really inspiring and transcendental work 'Palais de Mari'. This piece takes the listener to a world that even Scriabin himself would have dreamt about! Radulescu's piano works are another set of gems that have been rarely heard. His 6 piano sonatas are spiritual gems in my opinion. Composer George Flynn is still writing, and any of us could check out his own interpretation of 'Trinity' along with Madge's recording of 'Derus Simples'.

I mean, literally there is too much to talk about and explore. Hespos' crazy music , sadly his only solo piano piece '-Z ... ()' , there's Saunder's 'crimson' , Volker Heyn's 'Tap' , Wieland Hoban's 'when the panting STARTS' , Finnissy's 'SKRYABIN in itself' , John Ogdon's 20+ Piano Sonatas and 2 Piano concertos, Cage's 'Music of Changes' or Etudes Australes , Scelsi's piano sonatas and his many piano suites (I think 11), Maiguashca's Duo-piano works, Dusapin etudes, Ferneyhough works, E. Carter's works, Ustvolskaya's 6 piano sonatas, Nono's ...sofferte onde serene... (which is an absolute contemporary masterpiece!) ... that's just the beginning, so please explore more...

In the end, there will always be listeners who disapprove of anything post-Schoenberg. But then again, I dislike having , let's say a Bach enthusiast trashing contemporary music when they cannot even appreciate Brahms or Liszt. It makes me wonder, are they crazy, or am I crazy for loving some of the music I play? It's a road that always has endless answers so why bother.

There is seriously too much to explore ...





Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: Journee Oubliee] #1182639 04/17/09 09:54 PM
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A few:

Chen Yi
Ba Ban (1999)

Luigi Dallapiccola
Quaderno musicale di Annalibera (1952)

Lera Auerbach
Preludes (1999)

Leon Kirchner
Sonata #2 (2003)




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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: Journee Oubliee] #1183118 04/18/09 07:55 PM
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A big thank you for all the suggestions and comments. Obviously, solo piano is thriving. It will take a while to follow up, but I surely have a basis now to approach an era of composition I've neglected up to now.

Originally Posted by William Penafiel
I would not dare to put anything on a par with Bartok or Shostakovich, simply because there are tons of compositions out there that I think to be FAR superior than some of the works that those 2 have written.


Anticipating that someone may feel this way I included explicitly 'or better than' in my query. Thanks a lot for your post.


Rob
Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: rrb] #1183196 04/18/09 10:59 PM
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I am a Lowell Liebermann fan. My nocturne cd has been scratched, so I cannot listen to it anymore. :-(

A few months ago I heard the sonata #3 performed by James Giles; well worth listening to. He does a lot of interesting compositional things that are not present in many of his other works.

And Gargoyles is awesome too. (Stephen Hough's recording is my favorite.)

I would love to hear the 3rd concerto sometime.

Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: lizcovedale] #1183209 04/18/09 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lizcovedale
I am a Lowell Liebermann fan. My nocturne cd has been scratched, so I cannot listen to it anymore. :-(
And Gargoyles is awesome too. (Stephen Hough's recording is my favorite.) I would love to hear the 3rd concerto sometime.


At least two of the Nocturnes (5,8) are up on youtube. The Gargoyles, too. They're remarkable! Thanks for the introduction to a composer I'd never heard of.

His wikipedia entry is rather sparse. Refers to Liebermann as 'the most accessible of modern composers', which, as far as my current listening has taken me, is true.

Thanks again.


Rob
Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: Goldberg] #1183215 04/19/09 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Goldberg
These are just a handful that came to mind. There are some great composers out there today and some phenomenal pieces too--just keep exploring and listening!


You are so right. And I am! I listened through Finnisy's 'English Country Tunes' tonight but I have to say I failed to detect anything 'English' or 'Country' about it, and not many 'tunes' were evident to this ancient ear trained to listen for melody and rhythm.

Obviously, one needs to listen to this style of piano music with a different ear. What should I be listening for? Why is this a substantial work?



Rob
Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: rrb] #1183239 04/19/09 01:33 AM
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In reference to English Country Tunes, Ian Pace interviewed Michael some time ago. I'll share some of what I can quote.

Ian Pace: "This (English Country Tunes) I suppose epitomizes what a lot of people associate with your idiom for the piano, inhabiting many extremes of register, very active and violent music. I wonder how you feel looking back at that work nowadays written in '77, 22 years later. "

Michael Finnissy: "I know that the word 'complexity' is used a lot about this kind of music and I wonder in what sense you are beginning to inderstand or think what does this mean, what expectations are raised by that word? Because I would say it's highly detailed music, some areas of it have lots of notes, quite fast. So there's plenty of action, but it's complex more I think in terms of it's vision than it is in terms of its soundworld. I don't know that one would call Liszt or Grainger or Godowsky 'complex' composers simply because if you look at the surface details in their music, there're an awful lot of things happening. It doesn't necessarily make them complex. What's 'complex' about English Country Tunes is probably the idea about structure. "

The interview goes on for about an hour, but with this excerpt you can get an idea of Finnissy's views on this work. He really doesn't think of it as a complex work. Later on he talks about the reason he wrote this way was more about his excitement with music and growing up listening to other contemporary masters like Stockhausen and Bussotti.

I don't know if any "ancient ear" is equipped enough to pick up rhythm. Composers are writing so freely that rhythms are becoming as exact as they can possibly notate them in accordance with the manner in which they conceive the work. Rhythms are always hard and contemporary music explores rhythm far more than any piece written before Schoenberg.

As it may come to surprise to anyone forming an opinion on Finnissy's music just from ECT, his latest music for piano is actually quite different. Even small pieces like the 'Romance and Intermezzo' are poetic gems. Nobody would ever think it's his!

As Goldberg mentioned, keep exploring and listening!


Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: Journee Oubliee] #1183351 04/19/09 08:21 AM
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Carl Vine's 1st Piano Sonata. Composed in 1990, very intense but beautiful.

1st Mov
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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: Ridicolosamente] #1183362 04/19/09 08:50 AM
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It should also be mentioned that some of the best contemporary music for piano is with another instrument.

Recently, I've played the Lowell Liebermann Flute sonata, the John Corigliano violin sonata and the saxophone sonatas by David Maslanka and Jindrich Feld. Great stuff!

I'm looking forward to my summer project, too:



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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: Kreisler] #1183372 04/19/09 09:07 AM
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Since Kirchner has been mentioned, anyone interested can download (free and legal, so don't worry) and listen to his Interlude I for solo piano here (performed by Jonathan Biss), and his Second Piano Sonata here (performed by Russell Sherman).

They're both very fine works, but they have a rhapsodic quality that conceals their unity (at least on a first or second listening). Still, they're both worthwhile pieces!


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Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: Kreisler] #1183635 04/19/09 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kreisler
It should also be mentioned that some of the best contemporary music for piano is with another instrument.


A good point, and thanks for the clip. I deliberately limited my questions to solo piano because I thought this would narrow it down a bit. Hmmm! That didn't work! I'm going to be busy for quite a while assimilating the suggestions and comments that have already appeared in this thread.

What's striking on casual listening is the wide variety of styles. Liebermann, Kapustin, Schittke, Finnissy, Rautavaara seem to be following different paths. Some are more directly appealing on first hearing than others, but I'm sure this is in the ear of the listener.

A time of exploration, perhaps?


Rob
Re: Contemporary piano music: Two questions. [Re: rrb] #1183706 04/19/09 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rrb
A big thank you for all the suggestions and comments. Obviously, solo piano is thriving.


I am not much of a fan of post 1950 piano music(although I like some Messian, Vine and Rzewski). But if you are talking about performance of works written post 1950, I don't think this period is thriving.

If you divide the period from 1800 to 2000 into four 50 year periods, my observation about recital programs would place the amount of piano music being performed that was written after 1950 to be a distant last.

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