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People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11777
12/14/08 12:54 AM
12/14/08 12:54 AM
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Posts: 155
Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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J
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Tampa, fl
Please do youself a favor and check out the Boston piano by Steinway.

Im new to this forum and I think it is such a wonderful asset for prospective piano buyers.

But I find it very unfortunate that the Boston piano seems to be totally lost in this forum.

Im sure many will flame me and claim the lame argument "its just a more expensive Kawai" made in a kawai factory".. yes it is true Steinway uses Kawai to manufacture the limited production Boston piano for them in what was Kawai's Idle factory back in the early 90's.

The piano scale and design ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT than any of the Kawai piano at any quality level.

OEM (oreginal equipment manufacturing) is a way of life in today world and is prevalent in most all the products we purchase today.

All I can say is that this piano has a full, warm, well rounded sound that has both power and clarity. It is very popular amongst many of the "all Steinway schools". (ooh im sure that makes you kawai guys just growl)

Im sure you can guess as to my opinion of this piano compared to the ones lister earlier, but you owe it to yourself to give this piano strong consideration. I was sold on the 150+ years of piano building and designing experience that Steinway has that was all put into the Boston piano.

Thanks again for such a great forum for us like minded people to discuss this wonderful expression of life we call piano.

J


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
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Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11778
12/14/08 12:56 AM
12/14/08 12:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
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Horowitzian  Offline
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I'm no S&S enemy (see my profile), but this sounds like a plug to me. Are you affiliated with the piano industry in any way?

Bostons are great, well designed pianos. But those who find them too expensive relative to comparable instruments have a good case IMHO...


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11779
12/14/08 01:03 AM
12/14/08 01:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 155
Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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Tampa, fl
Quote
Originally posted by Horowitzian:
I'm no S&S enemy (see my profile), but this sounds like a plug to me. Are you affiliated with the piano industry in any way?

Bostons are great, well designed pianos. But those who find them too expensive relative to comparable instruments have a good case IMHO...
I guess it is a plug, I am a piano teacher in the tampa area and I own a boston piano and shopped between all of the others listed above. IMO its the best piano available comparable to other products near its price and its frustrating to see everyone ask "should i get a kawai or yamaha" with no mention or consideration for a boston.


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11780
12/14/08 01:14 AM
12/14/08 01:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
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Horowitzian Offline
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It's been talked about before. You might search the archives if you haven't already. There are some members who own Bostons and are happy with them, FWIW. Go to the community directory and search by piano brand owned. Who knows, you may happen onto some of the infamous flame wars that are the real reason Boston, etc. are not discussed very much.

Glad to hear you're not affiliated with the industry, though.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11781
12/14/08 01:56 AM
12/14/08 01:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
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Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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Tampa, fl
Oooh, I like drama though, where can I look to find some!

lol smile


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11782
12/14/08 02:02 AM
12/14/08 02:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
California
koiloco Offline
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koiloco  Offline
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For people considering Steinway who could afford a Steinway....

buy a Steinway!

For people considering Steinway but can not afford one...buy a Boston and feel free to say it's a Steinway piano. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
As for why Boston is not a popular brand among the mix of Yammie and Kawai, maybe people prefer to buy a Kawai piano made by Kawai and save some money.

I am sure that Boston pianos are just as wonderful as Kawai ones:)

Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11783
12/14/08 02:08 AM
12/14/08 02:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 155
Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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Tampa, fl
Please see the link provided

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/24906.html

I tried to explain the many differences between a boston and kawai.

Im a teacher who shopped endlessly for my two pianos Boston GP 178 and B and am sorta a piano junkie. Been to s&s factory, selected my b there!


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11784
12/14/08 02:09 AM
12/14/08 02:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 207
だまれ Offline
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What about the Boston versus the Shigeru Kawai/Yamaha S?

Kawai was mentioned without any specification; likewise the Yamaha S series.

How would you compare those models with the Boston?

For the same money (in my country), I went for the Shigerus though, so I'm a biased commentator. wink


Haha! You bet!
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11785
12/14/08 02:12 AM
12/14/08 02:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
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Horowitzian  Offline
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jman37, I must tell you to be careful with your enthusiastic rhetoric in support of Boston, because we neither want nor need a flame war. It's not worth it. I realize you are just enthusiastic about the brand, but others may take a less favorable impression. smile


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11786
12/14/08 02:17 AM
12/14/08 02:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 155
Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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jman37  Offline OP
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Tampa, fl
Quote
Originally posted by ppp:
What about the Boston versus the Shigeru Kawai/Yamaha S?

Kawai was mentioned without any specification; likewise the Yamaha S series.

How would you compare those models with the Boston?

For the same money (in my country), I went for the Shigerus though, so I'm a biased commentator. wink
To be honest ive never played either of the pianos you have listed. I dont think they are really in the same price range as a boston piano so its probably not a fair comparisson. but If you werer able to buy one of these for the same price as a boston I'de say you did pretty well!

in my world i put the rx kawai, and c series yamaha with the Boston pianos.

EDIT: The only piano im really comparing are the RX kawai, and C serios Yamaha and Boston piano.

Sorry I should have been more clear..


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11787
12/14/08 02:18 AM
12/14/08 02:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
California
koiloco Offline
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koiloco  Offline
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omg, omg, my Kawai dealer lied to me. I am selling my RX-5 tomorrow and must get a Boston.

ppp, there's no way your SK is better than a Boston. Ask for a return and trade it back in for a Boston.

read the link jman37 posted. I am so shocked now!

smile smile

Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11788
12/14/08 02:22 AM
12/14/08 02:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
California
koiloco Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by jman37:

in my world i put the rx kawai, and c series yamaha with the Boston pianos. [/QB]
You just answered your own concern.

If you believe that these pianos are in the same group and compared closely to one another in performance, of course people will opt for the lower priced one which often, in this case, is not a Boston.

just my 2c.

Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11789
12/14/08 02:23 AM
12/14/08 02:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 288
West
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NmbrNine Offline
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I shopped mainly Yamaha, Kawai, Boston and Petrof in my long search...I visited several dealers multiple times.

I have to admit I found things I liked about each brand...and the Bostons I played at the Steinway dealer sounded rich and strong with nice touch...though not superiour enough to justify the comparative prices (Especially when I started noodling with a very nice Weinbach at the Petrof dealer).

The true deal-breaker for Boston came when the dealer asked me what other pianos I was shopping. When my answer included "Kawai," he rolled his eyes and asked why I would even include that brand in the same class as Boston by Steinway.

I explained why I found his statement disingenuous, and left.

In my own hypothetical tier scale, I couldn't get over the notion that the Boston was a tier three piano with a tier two pricetag, based on irrelevant association with a tier one company.

A shame really, because despite the identity crisis, I did find it a very nice instrument.

Just my experience...
Nine.

Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11790
12/14/08 02:25 AM
12/14/08 02:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 622
California
koiloco Offline
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koiloco  Offline
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NmbrNine just reinforced my thinking and logic smile

Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11791
12/14/08 02:29 AM
12/14/08 02:29 AM
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Posts: 155
Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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Tampa, fl
Quote
Originally posted by koiloco:
Quote
Originally posted by jman37:

in my world i put the rx kawai, and c series yamaha with the Boston pianos.
You just answered your own concern.

If you believe that these pianos are in the same group and compared closely to one another in performance, of course people will opt for the lower priced one which often, in this case, is not a Boston.

just my 2c. [/QB]
just because they are in the same price point doesnt mean they should be the exact same price.

There are real, tangible differences between the boston and kawai pianos therfore there will be differences in costs as well.

A hyndai sedan is in the same class as a honda sedan, would you simply purchse the hyndai because it was less money?


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11792
12/14/08 02:31 AM
12/14/08 02:31 AM
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Posts: 496
Avantgardenabi Offline
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It is Hyundai, jman37.

As Korean, I do not see the reason why Hyundai sedan is not as good as Honda counterpart.

Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11793
12/14/08 02:38 AM
12/14/08 02:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 155
Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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Tampa, fl
sorry for the misinterpretation. I was not implying a hyundai is better or worst than a honda. I was using it as an example to make a point.

Honestly, I think Koreans are building the best stuff on the planet as of now, and I say that with all sincerity.


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11794
12/14/08 02:42 AM
12/14/08 02:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,187
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charleslang Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by NmbrNine:
he rolled his eyes
There's nothing that says 'Steinway' quite like a gesture of completely undeserved condescension.

I think the Steinway religion is a kind of self-perpetuating closed-mindedness. People play Steinway, hear Steinway, and want Steinway. I've owned five pianos and after having each one for a while I found the character compelling. I've played many hours on a Kawai, a Yamaha, a NY Steinway, a hand-made German piano (old May-Berlin), and others. After living abroad for a few years I started liking the european pianos. Now that I'm in the US I like the American tone of the piano I have here. I have LOVED each of these.

Somebody in another thread made the observation that all the piano teachers he knew who disliked a particular brand turned out to just be unacquainted with the brand.

Can't we all just get along?


charlessamuellang.com
Semi-pro pianist and piano technician
Tuesdays 5-8:30 at Vince's West Sacramento, California
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11795
12/14/08 02:45 AM
12/14/08 02:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
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Horowitzian Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by charleslang:

Can't we all just get along?
Agreed.

I LOVE Steinways because they fit my tastes in a piano. But a flame war won't help their (or anyone's) reputation. So let's not carry this discussion farther than it deserves.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11796
12/14/08 02:52 AM
12/14/08 02:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 155
Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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I hope that it doesnt turn into a flammin contast but Im not opposed to some spirited discussions!

I will tone down my enthusiasm a bit though.

J


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11797
12/14/08 02:53 AM
12/14/08 02:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,187
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charleslang Offline
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:t: :t: I HATE STEINWAY :t: :t:

thumb laugh


charlessamuellang.com
Semi-pro pianist and piano technician
Tuesdays 5-8:30 at Vince's West Sacramento, California
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11798
12/14/08 03:17 AM
12/14/08 03:17 AM
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Posts: 288
West
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NmbrNine Offline
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My apologies if I (unintentionally) perpetuated a flame war...though I must admit, I do love the term:

FLAME WAR!!!!
FLAAAAAAAAME WAR!!!!!!!

Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11799
12/14/08 03:51 AM
12/14/08 03:51 AM
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Posts: 15,374
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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If Kawai builds a Kawai, Kawai has to make money.

If Kawai builds a Boston, both Steinway and Kawai have to make money.

If the Boston build by Kawai would in fact be clearly superior to the regular Kawai considering the former's "totally different design and superior parts" the question asked would never have to come up.

Yet is seemingly *does*, again and again...

Norbert shocked


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11800
12/14/08 03:52 AM
12/14/08 03:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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Quote
Honestly, I think Koreans are building the best stuff on the planet as of now, and I say that with all sincerity.
Let's hear it for Young Chang Platinum Plus (backed by Hyundai no less) and for Chevy Aveo too (clearly the people's choice)!

[Don't mind me Avantgardenabi. I'm just tossing a log on the fire. wink ]


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11801
12/14/08 03:55 AM
12/14/08 03:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,374
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
Honestly, I think Koreans are building the best stuff on the planet as of now, and I say that with all sincerity.
That may be quite true.

What I'm worried about is what the Chinese or some others will bring out next - built on the moon....

Norbert wink


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11802
12/14/08 03:57 AM
12/14/08 03:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,031
Belgium
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schwammerl Offline
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Quote
Honestly, I think Koreans are building the best stuff on the planet as of now, and I say that with all sincerity.
jman37,

Then you must feel sorry for Steinway they could not keep their Essex line as an "all Korean made" product as they handed over a big chunck to the Chinese.

schwammerl.

Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11803
12/14/08 04:11 AM
12/14/08 04:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,348
Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Bear 1 Offline
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If this ridiculous thread goes on much longer we'll continue the same old "Tug-O-War," and I don't want to participate in an endless reiteration, or rekindling a flame war.
Wooden parts, ABS parts, high tension, low tension,
American, Japanese, Korean, Indonesian, Chinese, European, Ad nauseam.

In my opinion:
Steinway & Sons pianos are wonderful pianos.
Shigeru Kawai pianos are wonderful pianos.
Kawai pianos are wonderful pianos.
Boston pianos are wonderful pianos.
Yamaha pianos are wonderful pianos
Exxex pianos are wonderful pianos.
All European pianos are wonderful pianos.
All pianos are wonderful pianos.
The piano that you now own is a wonderful piano.

In selecting the next piano or your first time piano, buy the piano that fits your purse strings the best and floats your boat. Then you'll be a happy boater, er ah a happy pianist. smile

After all it's your money and your decision.
Are you overpaying for your choice of your next piano?

Cordially,

Bear


Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11804
12/14/08 04:20 AM
12/14/08 04:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 155
Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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Tampa, fl
Quote
Originally posted by Norbert:
If Kawai builds a Kawai, Kawai has to make money.

If Kawai builds a Boston, both Steinway and Kawai have to make money.

If the Boston build by Kawai would in fact be clearly superior to the regular Kawai considering the former's "totally different design and superior parts" the question asked would never have to come up.

Yet is seemingly *does*, again and again...

Norbert shocked
Well, it is a fair question to ask. This however doesn't change the fact that Boston's are able to be built more effeciently and at a lesser cost by using the idle factories Kawai has than to build a whole new, complete manufacturing plant for a limited production line such as the Boston piano.

This is my understanding only.. I dont think Kawai's are bad pianos, my only point was to make aware that there is another option available and to dismiss any misinformation that is prevalent all over the internet.

Nothing of this is personal.


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11805
12/14/08 04:24 AM
12/14/08 04:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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torrance, CA
So much for the notion that piano teachers don't worry much about the internal workings of pianos. laugh

jman,

I've known a lot of piano teachers in my time, and I've never heard one who talks like you, not even close. It seems preposterous that a new member professional piano teacher would blast into a piano discussion forum with a thread openly advising Kawai and Yamaha shoppers to buy a Boston instead. If a dealer pulled that routine, he would be put out to pasture quickly.

Either you are a rare breed of piano teacher or ???


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: People considering Kawai's and Yamaha's... #11806
12/14/08 04:26 AM
12/14/08 04:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 155
Tampa, fl
J
jman37 Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by schwammerl:
Quote
Honestly, I think Koreans are building the best stuff on the planet as of now, and I say that with all sincerity.
jman37,

Then you must feel sorry for Steinway they could not keep their Essex line as an "all Korean made" product as they handed over a big chunck to the Chinese.

schwammerl.
Ehh, I guess its just the way of the world.. They are all headed that way, whether we like it or not.


On the mountain of the lord it will be provided.
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