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hi, steve,
when you say it is a hoax, do you mean that the numbers are not accurate? or do you mean that those who posted it are not really socially conscious?

i'm not too concerned about the accuracy of those numbers. the way the parameters are set, i'm sure it is very difficult, if not impossible, to be strictly correct with those numbers.

i do believe the statistics are generally true, however, in that, for example, most of the world's population is asian, and very few people, relatively speaking on a percentage basis, have bank accounts and computers.

i also think part of the point, if not the main point of that web site, is to show off the author's web design skills, and the statistics are just a way to do that, and not an end in themselves.

i think we can probably all agree on the gist of truth of the site, which is that we in north america are the most fortunate people, economically speaking, on earth. most of the world does not share in the wealth that we have. i don't think there would be much argument about that. the 100 people stats are just a way to dramatize it.

Larry,

This post is in reference to yours, but it not directed at you...

I have been so completely misunderstood that no matter what tag I used or didn't use, someone would twist what I said and accuse me of 'presupposing' someone's motives or 'hiding behind my religion' or some other such idiocy. I'm tired of being nice to nasty people who take everything I say and put their own negative spin on it.

Derick
(The whipping boy)

originally posted by Freddie:
[/QUOTEIt's late at night in a California piano shop. A mahogany Yamaha C-2 is gently sobbing and a Bechstein grand shouts "Shut the heck up, some of us are trying to sleep around here, if PENNY would have wanted you she would have bought you, now goodnight already!!!!".

Now THAT is funny! (especially because I don't particularly care for Yamahas ... or Bechsteins!

penny

[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: Penny ]

Ok, I didn't really wanted to contribute to this mega-thread, but since pique brought up the question below...I thought I give it a shot.



Yes, we have authorised dealers in Germany. And we also have fixed prices on some items (including books, cars and, to a certain extend, pianos). These prices were non-negotiable until 1999 , since 2000 they are but nobody really does haggle when purchasing something over here. The dealer quotes his price and you either take it or leave it. The only thing a piano dealer might be willing to negotiate is whether he includes the bench or a second in-home tuning in the piano price.

A Bechstein XYZ for example costs the same in Cologne as in Munich give or take a few Euros. Still, there is competition but between brands not that much among dealers.
How does that work?
In any German city you usually won't find two dealers selling the same brands; however, if you do find this set up you can be sure that one dealer carries only the grands of one brand whereas the other carries the verticals. Example from where I live:
We have Ibach (yes, the manufacturer), who also sells Seiler, Sauter, Schiedmayer and Roth & Junius. The other dealer sells Bechstein (+ Zimmerman and Hoffmann), Schimmel, Yamaha, Kawai and a number of rebuild pianos. About 30km away we have Bechstein Hall in Dusseldorf. They sell mostly grands. Hence, the Bechstein dealer in "my" town sells mostly their verticals.
So, there is competition and diversity but also some kind of protection for the dealers. The dealers don't have to fear that a neighbouring dealer might offer the same piano for less, because there won't be a second dealer in the same city selling the same brands. That's one advantage of a dealer network set up by the manufacturers.
The other is that it doesn't matter if you buy your piano in city X or Y when it comes to warranty issues.

To my knowledge all piano dealers are authorised dealers. Selling something (not only pianos) for which you are as a dealer not authorised is against the law. Excluded from this are, of course, pianos which were traded in for better ones.

All this works perfectly well in Germany and the piano business is far from going under. A lot of piano dealers in Germany have been in business for more than a 100 years and they don't seem to close soon.

Hello Pique
I'm sorry I wasn't more clear (I was trying to give everyone relief from my usual long-winded posts). The "100 person village" story is called a hoax because of the way it is usually attributed to one of several different college professors, and because the statistics are false. I even read an article (I can't remember where) where the professor that is usually quoted as developing these stats was intervied. He said that not only had he not written the piece, but that it was becoming a problem for his family as people from all over the world were attempting to contact him in response to the "Village" email they had received.

I agree with you that the "spirit" of what the "Village story" says is probably true, although I have a problem with the manipulation of statistics that cannot be verified, as well as the manipulative nature of the story itself. In my mind, the end does NOT justify the means.

I also want to say that I completely understand your comments about your Grotrian in your previous post. How do you ever get anything done? I feel the same way about my Steinway. (I'm sure your Grotrian make me feel the same way -- increidble piano!) Although I'm very serious about my playing, I feel like the piano has more music in it than I do. But that's not a bad thing. It gives me something to shoot for.

Have a great day!

Dearest Larry,

I love you like a brother. However, if you invite Davey to this board, I will personally make it my life's work to hunt you down and make you pay for your heinous crime against Humanity.


Have a nice day!

Dearest Jolly,

If I were to actually do such a terrible thing, you wouldn't have to hunt me - I would drive to your town and present myself to you for the beating I would so richly deserve.......

Well, due to a defective cable modem I've been out of touch for awhile. This thread has gotten to unfocused to even comment on. Anybody know an address of a good piano discussion forum ?

Steve

Hey Derick,

I kinda like the "whipping boy" tag line. Keep that one ok!

:p

Dan

Steve:

My Grotrian, the 6'3", is actually MUCH nicer than the 7' you played at Beethoven. Really! I played both of them the same day. The scale is a lot more even between treble and bass on the smaller piano.

Your comment about the piano having more music in it than you do is perfect. I feel exactly the same way. And yes, it is very inspiring.

Nici,
Thanks for the education on the piano market in Germany.

Larry--how does this differ from how things work in the U.S., if at all? And how do you account for the concentration of great makers all in one place. Wouldn't it be great if we had that kind of market here?

Pique, don't ever let me play your Grotrian. I think it would cause a major crisis for me if what you say is true!!! I loved that 7ft. Grotrian!!! I didn't sense any problems with the break in the 7ft. If yours is better, look out!!!

The price I ended up getting on my "B" was significantly less than what I would have paid for the Grotrian. That was pretty much the deciding factor as to why I didn't pursue it much further. (I also love a good "B"!) I've never seen a Grotrian in a recording studio, but I'll bet they record VERY well.

steve,
if you are interested in recordings of grotrians, the manufacturer in germany has free demo recordings (the narration is in german, however). if you go to their web site and email them your address, they will send you one.

well, now you know the reason i steered you to beethoven's when you first posted that you were looking in the ny metro area. i thought from your tastes that you might like that piano.

i'm sure your B is wonderful. the good ones truly are. i don't remember how much beethoven's was asking for the 7' grotrian, but if you got a B for less than that, and it inspires you as you say, you did very well.

of course, you are welcome to come out to the rockies and play my grotrian any time!


[ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: pique ]

I don't want to hear other people recording on a Grotrian. I want to hear ME recorded on a Grotrian. (It's more fun that way)

This one is a great one, but now that you mention it - there does just happen to be a brand new one!! To get there, click on the link to my website below, then click on "messageboard". I think everyone will be surprised!

68% of all statistics are made up.

Well then, by logic, the probability of this statistic being made up is better than the probability of it being truth.

Three kinds of lies: lies, dammed lies, and statistics. (Source unknown, to me at the moment.)

Ninety percent of all statistics are skewed in some way, and the other half are misleading. (I think this is a bad derivative of a quote by Yogi Berra.)

Ah! Found it. The three kinds of lies quote is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli, British Prime Minister.

OK, just bringing the count to 400. And also thinking this thread has run its course. What do you say, Frank?

penny