Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum How many of your students have only a DP?

Well said Mark.

Exactly! I meant to mention that sort of thing myself. It is the student that is paying for the lessons, eh?

I know in my case I'm just an over the hill 56 year old that is learning to play for my own amusement.

My perspective (as someone who's only been learning for about 2 years) is that you should have the best instrument that you can afford, have the space for, and can play without disturbing neighbors. I live in a small apartment, so no room for a grand. And again, I live in a small apartment, so any acoustic would be disruptive to my neighbors since I frequently play at odd hours. So the digital is necessary for me. Since I live in a small apartment (seeing a trend here?), having both a digital and an acoustic is out of the question.

I upgraded recently from a ~$400 DP to a high end Yamaha DP, and I couldn't be happier. I actually like my DP more than the studio Yamaha that I take my lessons on (more consistent touch and the studio's lower registers are poorly voiced). But I certainly wouldn't say that digital and acoustic are two entirely different instruments. I adjust to the acoustic with a few minutes of warmup before my lessons (just like others adjust to it from their own acoustics), and my complaints about that instrument are the same complaints that my teacher has about it.

It's easy to say that you can get a "good" acoustic for $1500 (which is less than I paid for my DP), but my experience has been that a high-end DP will be nicer than many, many uprights. I'd take a grand any day, but that's not in the cards for me yet, and even if I did have one, I'd still keep my digital.

To the OP, I'd say that if you and your teacher aren't noticing problems with your playing on the acoustic, don't worry about it. At some point, you might want to move up to a grand because it will do things that a digital can't, but couldn't someone with an upright eventually reach that same conclusion? In a perfect world, we'd all buy instruments that could last us a lifetime the first time we buy...but who lives there?

Sure you can reach the same conclusion with an upright. I had never played on grand pianos until I went to college to study music as a performance major. Was my progress limited by my small upright until then? Not that I noticed. Of course it was nice to use grands for professional study and if you dream of becoming a concert pisnist you had better get used to performing on a concert grand in a large venue. That said, there are a good number of concert pianists who do not own a grand piano themselves. Most don't make enough money!

My child started her lessons practicing on a cheap unweighted keyboard. I quickly upgraded to an older but decent DP. Her teacher noticed her progress improved immediately. The teacher, by the way, had a small spinet, indifferently maintained. IMO.

My daughter made the same progress as any other student in that studio, limited not by the instrument but by the amount of practice she did.

Had her teacher objected to a DP, I simply wouldn't have told her, which is what I imagine most parents would do.

My prediction is that digital pianos will continue to increase the percentage of the market share until the domination is overwhelming. If you don't want to teach children who practice on them, you're severely limiting your source of students. As there's nothing you can do about it, might as well learn how to adapt how you teach to the change in environment.

The real question is: what should you do differently, if your student practices on a DP? (if anything)

Uh, how many of your students have hearing damage from iPods? how are you changing your teaching to cope with that? Hee, hee.

Well, even as we speak, the Kawaii dealer in your city, Bellevue, is offering a huge sale on instruments seized in a bank foreclosure. Have you visited the store? It's almost across the street from the Bellevue Steinway dealer. I'd visit both of them.

Are you sure you're not a keyboard salesman????

And, well, yes, there is something we teachers can do about it.

As teachers, we can educate our students that an electronic synthesizer, as nice as it sounds, and as handy as it is for all kinds of tasks, is not a piano.

A piano, at its heart, is a stringed instrument, which is played by felt hammers controlled by the performer using keys. It is not a percussion instrument, as is commonly misconceived, as percussion instruments the performer hammers directly on the transducing membrane, where as in stringed instruments, vibrating strings, whether bowed, plucked, or hammered, have their vibrations transferred to the transducing membrane using a bridge device.

Manufacturers, and their sales force, know all this, and if they presented it honestly to potential customers, would not make a single sale, so they have to fudge the truth (you can call it something else, if you like).

Would I prefer all my students practice on grands? Of course. Would I refuse to teach them if they were limited to uprights or electronic substitutes? Of course not. They limit themselves when they choose this route. Why should I stand in their way?

John v.d.Brook wrote: "They limit themselves when they choose this route."

Limit themselves from what?

Are you sure you're not bigoted about acoustics? Are you an acoustic salesman? Notice how you call them KEYBOARDS. We're not talking about KEYBOARDS. We're talking about Digital Pianos which are a different thing than keyboards
I believe you're way off base here. The world is going digital. The high end digital pianos are actually BETTER in many respects than most acoustics out there. Are they the same, no, do they sound the same, not exactly, but extremely close depending on the model and how the sound was sampled and modeled. Does every acoustic piano sound alike, no, but who cares. Id the feel, the responsiveness of the keys the same? Again not exactly, but extremely close depending on the specific model. People used to play lutes, do they now? We used to have analog TV, do we now, only for a few more months. We used to have analog vinyl records now we're digital.

You say you would like all your students to play on grand pianos? Why? What benefit would they get in the long run from it beyond what they would get from a proper Digital Piano?

In what way specifically are they being limited?

Give me a day where, as a student, I have time to list them. We are trying to produce sound out of the multiple aspects the instrument has (if only it had them) - not be the recipient of a finished product (artificial mimicry). How does one respond to the movement of a hammer when there is none? How do you blend and mix the things emanating from strings, when there are no strings, and the sound is a predigested pretty glob coming out of a speaker? How can you develop your ear or your technique when there is nothing there to interact with....

But John ... not everyone who has a DP does so by choice, and some people cannot afford a good piano OR a car. Humanity 101 teaches that people who are not poor cry poverty. Humanity 102 says that doesn't mean poverty doesn't exist. Humanity 103 brushes the sand out of the avian's head feathers and says people are pretty hard to figure out. Humanity 104 says people should be paid what they are worth, equipment should be quality ... Hum105 says it's not always that simple. Cheers!
KS

Hmmm, not sure I'm following this exactly, but I think you may not understand the intricate details of how a high end digital piano creates its output. The sounds can mix and blend and respond to the players touch on the keys, the physical keys simulate the hammer actions which is very tactile, the output is far from a predigested glob as you say it is created, mixed, adjusted in real time in an analogous way to what the acoustic instrument does. -- at least in the higher-end digital pianos. Now if you are speaking of keyboards and not digital pianos then I don't necessarily disagree with your statements but not with respect to a proper digital piano.

You nicely sidestepped the major point of my post, which is a keyboard, no matter how sophisticated, is not a piano.

I cannot in good conscious call them pianos, as they are not pianos, any more than a high end digital recording system is an orchestra.

I'd call them electronic synthesizers, because that's what they basically are, but then the synthesizer community gets bent out of shape, because they use recorded sounds, ie digital 1s and 0s, as opposed to using digital 1s and 0s to synthesize a sound from scratch.

But they are not pianos. Period. Go ahead, pluck a string on your electronic. Play it when there's a power outage.



You mean, you really don't know?

keystring, are you saying that the only reason people choose electronic synthesizers, aka keyboards, because they are too poor to choose a piano?

Well, even as we speak, the Kawaii dealer in your city, Bellevue, is offering a huge sale on instruments seized in a bank foreclosure.
Hmm. What do you mean by "Kawai dealer"? Currently, the only Kawai dealer in the whole state is in Bremerton..

I believe that there are a couple of issues in the OP rather than simply one. One issue is the relative merits of electronic instruments versus traditional acoustic pianos. This issue has innumerable threads already posted, and is not likely to be resolved in the near future. It is also possible that the result may change in the future, as electronics are improved.

The other issue is to what extent a teacher should exercise control over the student's practice tool. One extreme is the teacher who flat out refuses to teach a student that does not have (or obtain) an acoustic piano, perhaps even a specific quality of acoustic piano. The other extreme is the teacher who works with each student in order to help the student develop, regardless of what device the student may use for practice. In the 19th century, it was rather common for many students to not even posses a piano, but to practice on a silent keyboard. I owned one of these for a period, I purchased it as an interesting antique.

I feel most comfortable with a teacher who discusses the relative merits honestly with the student; then works with the student's decision (which can be a result of many things - what type of musician the student wants to become, financial means, problems resulting from apartment living, etc.)

My instructor for the past 2.5 years is a VERY qualified teacher, a finalist decades ago on the Morehead Scholarship program in North Carolina who received training in Basil, Switzerland, and concertized in Europe for 20 years. He rents studio space from the local music store, which provides an abominable ancient Wurlitzer upright (and now a Yamaha digital). My own instruments are electronic (Kurzweil), because my main motivation is not only solo work but performing in an ensemble.

Said instructor is single, does not drive nor own an automobile, and lives in an apartment. He has begun to concertize again, and plans a trip back to Gibralter in the fall to set up a schedule of concerts. His final practice is being done on a Steinway at one of the local churches; but he now uses a higher end Yamaha digital in his apartment. He was convinced to purchase the instrument after a session of using my Kurzweil. His expression is that it allows him to do between 90 and 95% of his preparation at his convenience at home; and then do the last 5 to 10% of his preparation on the Steinway. Makes a lot of sense to me.

People just don't all fit in the same box. Between rehearsals and public appearances, the two ensembles of which I am member have me setting up and playing out two to three nights a week.

One thing I have noted (at least in this small town): Those teachers who are TOO particular (will ONLY teach the repetoire that they have done for xx years; or will ONLY teach those who possess an instrument that meets the teacher's standard) are much more likely to find themselves under- or un-employed.

John, Humanity 105 stated "It's not always that simple". My main argument was the same as yours - the role and importance of a decent acoustic piano, and why that was so.

ONE reason a person may be stuck with a DP is because of circumstances. I have a digital piano which I managed to purchase from someone I knew for $400. It was used for performances, and it has an impressive performance sound at a distance. That doesn't mean that it is ideal for learning to play the piano. It was affordable, and since I have neighbours on four sides there is a practical issue. If I had any way out, I would not be making do with the instrument I am playing.

No, I am not saying that is the only reason. It is one reason, and it is a very real one. People are in all kinds of circumstances. I am not being argumentative - to the contrary.

KS

Clearly you are confused or simply don't care to know. So my point about bias is well-founded.

It's certainly your own issue if you don't understand or refuse to understand. I can't help you with that John.

All I can do is lead you to the water, I can't make you drink.

Please humor me and enlighten me. I have no idea what limitations you are speaking of, you are the one that brought it up. Please detail what you think are limitations?

Sorry, thinking of Washburn. According to the Kawaii web site, and the radio ads I'm hearing, try

Prosser Piano And Organ Company
13400 Interurban Avenue South
Tukwila, WA 98168
206-957-8732

To answer the OPs question, only one of my 29 students has a DP, the rest play on acoustic pianos. This is in my policy.