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Hi All,

Does anyone have any suggestions, ideas, techniques, YouTube videos, or web sites on how to play really fast and accurate upward ascending arpeggios?

Thanks,

Rick

Chopin was never concerned if his pupils left a gap in legato as the thumb went under - the flow was more important.

Hey Rickster,

you gonna boo me out the ballpark, but the answer is ....

practice, practice, practice.

As always, slow practice with a metronome with gradual increase in tempo is basically all it is. Play at a challenging, but comfortable speed where you hit every note. My teacher advocated to feel the notes before you strike them, in other words be ready to play before tempo.. to get a feel for this start super slowly. Another thing is in Bernsteins book "With your own two hands" he did show a few exercises in turning the thumb under the hand for extended periods.. after all the essence of quality scales and arpeggios lies prominently in smooth turning under of the thumb.

Hi Dannac,

I’d never boo you under any circumstances . Thanks for the great advice. Yes, Practice, Practice, and more Practice is the answer.

Also, thanks for the comments, keyboardklutz and LeOniuS!

Take care,

Rick

Try playing the arpeggio notes with different rhythms. I find this helps my accuracy.

Also my other technique probably isn't recommended, but I try doubling the speed and trying to get them as accurate as possible there, this usually allows to play near perfect when I go back to the old speed.

Thanks, Theowne!

Playing the 5-string banjo for many years has helped me to develop rather fast fingers, especially on my right hand. I’m getting pretty quick on the piano as well but my control and accuracy need improvement.

I guess I’m a little like Richard Petty… I do everything fast. I think I need to slow down a little.

Take care,

Rick

Hmmm... the basic thumb-under (as used for scales, to shift 4 or 5 notes) is enough to shift a whole octave ? I don't know if usual hand anatomy supports that.
C,E,G (thumb under) C,E,G (thumb under) C,E,G etc ?

or maybe thumb-under every 2 notes ? that seems doable:
C,E (TU) G,C (TU) E,G ...

Fun exercise-like pieces in Faber adult book 2 use both hands alternating for such multi-octave arpeggios, up and down, and that feels more natural.
But perhaps that's not 'advanced enough' technique, if a hand needs to play something else then the other must arpeggio alone ?

Try this:
Play one 8va arpeggio very slowly, as quarter notes, then two octaves as 8th notes, then 3 8vas as 8th note triplets, then 4 8vas as 16ths. This will really help to keep your arpeggios even and accurate.

I agree that there can be a little gap when the thumb goes under, it will be covered by the legato in the other hand. The goal is to not slam down the thumb so that it's no louder than the other notes.

Thanks, RoMagister and Morodiene!

ROMagister, you are on to something here… yes, the thumb under to span an entire octave is exactly my problem. There is a slight gap in the arpeggio timing when I try to do that. And, I think I am referring to 16th note arpeggios. I can fly down the keyboard with descending 2-note TU arpeggios; I’m slower going upward with the 2-note TU arpeggios.

There is a piece I am working on that has an ending (my own arrangement) with a 7 octave ascending arpeggio from F2 to F7 (16th notes I think). I’ll start on F2 with my left hand 5th finger and play 4 notes of the F major cord with the left hand from F2 to F3, three notes with the right hand (to complete the full octave F major cord) to end with RH finger #5 on F4; cross over with my left hand to play 2 notes (A and C) to complete the F major cord in the 4th octave; cross under with my right hand with finger #1 landing on F4 and #5 ending on F5. Now, here is where the gap come in… to complete the 7 octave arpeggio I have to cross my RH thumb under for a complete octave to start on A6 to complete the FM cord with the C and F in the 7th octave. The arpeggio is fairly smooth and fast until I get to the RH thumb under from A5 to A6.

Okay, has this made any sense whatsoever?

Thanks for the comments!

Rick

ROMagister,

Not sure if I understand you well. But in Hanon, C-E-G is played by 1-2-3 on RH, then TU. For LH, it's 5-4-2, TU, then 1-4-2.

Rick,

For playing hand-over-hand arpeggios for 7 octaves, in F major, try this.

First, think of the run as eight-note triplets, rather than 16th notes.

Starting on the low F with your left hand, play F-A-C with 5-3-1. Then with your right hand, play F-A-C with 1-3-5.

Now cross your left hand over and play F-A-C with 5-3-1.

Continue up alternating hands.

Play the last F with your left hand, finger 2.

You can do this in any key, using the same pattern with the same fingers.


Mel

Thanks, Mel.

I tried your suggestion and it does flow rather smoothly. The way I was doing the F2 to F7 arpeggio flowed really smoothly too until the last octave. I can cross over again with my left hand but I was hoping to figure out a way to do the last two octaves with just the right hand. I guess it’s possible but will take a lot of speed, agility and accuracy.

Thanks again,

Rick

P.S. I listened to some of your recordings and they were great! Your piano sounded nice, was in tune and the playing was very good!

Mel, you are fantastic! Wow.

This video might help:

http://www.cosmolearning.com/video-lectures/arpeggio-pattern/

Aside to Mel,

FYI, I started my day by listening to your rendition of Pavane.

It's going to be a magnificent day, I'm sure!!

Thanks for sharing.

Ed

The wording of your question reveals
a fundamental misunderstanding about
playing. In playing an arpeggio
speed and accuracy are secondary
concerns as compared to rubato.

An arpeggio is typically notated
in music as a series of 4-16 notes,
but in piano music a 4-16 note
figure immediately signals that
rubato treatment is required, that
is, the four notes are not supposed
to be played in strict time. Thus,
although speed an accuracy are
required, what is much more important
is that you don't play the notes
in strict time. Without this kind
of rubato treatment you can't get
an impressive performance on the
piano.

You're suggesting that all long arpeggios in all piano music should be played without regard to strict timing? Without regard to the composer's period (romantic, baroque, etc.) or intentions indicated otherwise? Even when Rickster specifically says that he's working on his own arrangement, and would presumably know better than you what he intends?

Yes to all three questions. If you're
asking this, you have no real
understanding about playing the piano.

Awesome. Glad we got that cleared up. Rickster, you had better start reworking that arpeggio...might as well just do it with one hand, and don't bother with any quick thumb-under moves. Just pick your hand up and move it! Rubato!