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Re: Can a dealer survive now without Chinese brand [Re: Rank Piano Amateur] #1167962
03/24/09 01:54 PM
03/24/09 01:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 83
Canada
M
mike_klein5 Offline
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mike_klein5  Offline
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M

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 83
Canada
Thanks Norbert, just spreading my thoughts laugh


Michael Klein
Willis & Co. (MFD: January 1915) & Yamaha YDP-121 (MFD: 2001)
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Re: Can a dealer survive now without Chinese brand [Re: Rank Piano Amateur] #1167999
03/24/09 02:55 PM
03/24/09 02:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Originally Posted by Rank Piano Amateur
Diaphragmatic included the following in one of his posts on a currently active thread about Essex pianos:

"The Essex is a fine piano designed by Steinway and manufactured overseas in China and Korea along with most of its similarly priced competitors."

This seems inconsistent with his insistence on this thread that he would not deign to "carry" any Chinese pianos in his store. Either they are "fine" pianos or they are not. If they are, I fail to understand hie reservations about "carrying" them in his store. Of course, the other thread involved selling Essex pianos specifically. . . .


Rank,

I don't believe that Jonathan expressed any insistence. He was just responding to the thread topic.

Here's what he actually said:

"We have carried the Kohler brand for nearly 20 years, far longer than Essex was available to Steinway dealers to compete at the "home a family" price point. We have been very successful at selling this great piano and have created a market here in the Tampa area where we are now seeing 2nd generation buyers purchasing the Kohler & Campbell piano.

Many dealers believe in carrying many, many different brands, some of which even compete in the exact same price point and quality level. We happen to believe this can confuse a client and make the decision making process more difficult. I also do not believe it is fair for the manufacturers either. We carry, in our opinion, the best pianos available at each specific price point. So why would we carry others we didn't like as much? Additionally we try to make a commitment to carry the full line of pianos we offer, in the case of the Essex we carry the full line of Korean built grands.

To answer your question; the Kohler and Essex compete at a very similar price point, ecspecially the ones manufactured in China. This is the main reason why we, CURRENTLY, only carry, IN STOCK, the bigger Korean made Essex grands as they are pretty much priced right in between the Boston and Kohler .

I try not to make generalizing opinions or statements such as ones that demonize all Chinese piano manufacturing, but their are many red flags that have been raised by Chinese manufacturing "mishaps". This is not an objection I have to overcome, we leave that to our competitors. But I do believe one would be foolish to wright off a piano based entirely on the fact it was manufactured in China."

It makes sense to me.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Can a dealer survive now without Chinese brand [Re: Bear 1] #1168728
03/25/09 04:52 PM
03/25/09 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Originally Posted by Bear 1
Originally Posted by Diaphragmatic
Bear,
Do you think I am lying? Of course we can get them, we do not have any in stock. make the trip up to Clearwater! I would love for you to see our store. I'm sure Duane and Charlie would like to meet you as well. grin

And wow.. didn't expect to get backlash for not having Chinese pianos in stock at our store eek [quote=Diaphragmatic]


Hi Jonathan,

Thank you for the invitation to visit your very nice store. I'll take you up on that next time I'm in Clearwater. smile

I do remember your present store when Al Havener owned the property before selling it to you guys. I also remember your previous store that was just down the street from where you are now located.

I've also met Charlie and Duane years ago, but they probably don't remember me. I don't think I ever met Jman37 that teaches in your store but I've read most of his threads and posts. I guess he completely stopped posting on the forum right after you started posting yourself. smile

Jonathan, I didn't accuse you of lying, I posted:
Looks like they show a whole heck of a lot of both Grand and Upright Essex pianos on their website:

www.musicgalleryclearwater.com

In my opinion, the "backlash" you get for not having any Chinese pianos in stock in your store comes from that very statement, [b]Your quote: "And wow.. didn't expect to get backlash for not having Chinese pianos in stock at our store," including one of your statements, on a different thread, along this paraphrased quote Of course we can get them, if you want one, but we do not stock them.

Jonathan, when looking at your website, it appears as if your store has many different models of Essex pianos in stock that could be auditioned in your store if a consumer just wanted to drop in unannounced {after seeing your website} and play and compare many models of Essex upright and grand pianos, {regardless of country of origin} with your Kohler & Campbell Samick built pianos, Boston, and Steinway instruments in order to decide which model they should buy. I don't think most consumers, unless they haunt the Piano Forum, know which models of Essex are built in whatever country. They may know of Steinway's "jargon," Essex, designed by Steinway. Maybe they know of Steinways guaranteed 10 year 100% of the purchase price of an Essex toward the purchase of a new Steinway.
Do you have concerns that the Chinese built Essex won't hold up mechanically as good as the Korean built Essex will?

Is your company concerned that Essex is really mostly a confusing stencil piano?

Are you implying that some entry level Essex pianos, designed by Steinway and built in China, are not worthy of being sold to folks interested in having an entry level Steinway backed piano in their home?

Or maybe, in reality, many of the Essex pianos can't compete with your Kohler & Campbell pianos and cut into your marketing plans.

Do the Kohler & Campbell pianos have Steinway's 10 year 100% trade up plan for a new Essex, Boston, or Steinway?

Your company's website is very nice and I don't think that you folks are trying to intentionally pull the wool over anybody's eyes. But, in my opinion, the site portion devoted to the Essex brand is somewhat misleading and could be modified to really fit your business plan and marketing agenda.

[/b] The Music Gallery Company, Clearwater, Fl. and it's employees have a wonderful reputation within the piano industry for being an aboveboard, honest, and trustworthy business. I'm positive that you have many many satisfied customers too.

Sincerely,

Barry




Bear,

Since you're riding Jonathan pretty hard on yet another thread today (and simultaneously trying to appear to be Miss Congeniality grin), I thought it might be good to clear up the portion of your post that I underlined here. Is it your contention that because Jonathan's dealership website links to the S&S page describing all Essex models, that his dealership is misleading shoppers unless he has all those Essex models in stock?

Today I went to the Kawai America Corporation website and input my zip code in the dealer locator. I was provided the name, address, tel. no, and homepage of my nearest dealer. I checked his website and found a link to all Kawai acoustic pianos. I then called the dealer. He has two new Kawai pianos in stock. In his website he also states that he is an authorized Grotrian dealer. He has no Grotrian pianos in stock.

What say you?


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Can a dealer survive now without Chinese brand [Re: turandot] #1168754
03/25/09 05:33 PM
03/25/09 05:33 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,010
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,010
Maryland/DC/No. VA
I too see no incosistancy in Diaphamatic carrying K&C to cover his entry-level needs as opposed to Essex. The fact that he links to the (Steinway) Essex website isn't really misleading. I too carry SMC lines that cost me about the same as most entry-level Chinese brands.

I will be linking to Kawai's website as soon as my opening order is ready for sale. Yet, I undoubtedly will not stock all models in all finishes, even though they are all described on Kawai's website.

I would guess that VERY few dealers stock all models offered by any of their suppliers unless the supplier makes a very limited line.


Piano Industry Consultant

Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Can a dealer survive now without Chinese brand [Re: Steve Cohen] #1168901
03/25/09 11:13 PM
03/25/09 11:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,348
Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Bear 1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Bear 1  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,348
Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Greetings one and all,

I guess I opened a gigantic can of worms with my big mouth.

My sincere apologies to Jonathan {Diaphragmatic}, and everyone else on the forum that was offended by my opinionated postings.

Bear


Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)
Re: Can a dealer survive now without Chinese brand [Re: Bear 1] #1168918
03/25/09 11:38 PM
03/25/09 11:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
D
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member
Diaphragmatic  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Bear,
Hey.. were all passionate about the products we work so hard for. Its an exercise in futility to contain our opinions all the time and I have certainly been guilty of over stepping what is appropriate and I am sorry for that as well..

I just hope that we (professionals) always put the industry's good before our own. It needs all the help it can get.

its without saying Bear, thank you.





Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.
Re: Can a dealer survive now without Chinese brand [Re: Diaphragmatic] #1168950
03/26/09 12:35 AM
03/26/09 12:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,348
Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Bear 1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Bear 1  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,348
Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Originally Posted by Diaphragmatic
Bear,
Hey.. were all passionate about the products we work so hard for. Its an exercise in futility to contain our opinions all the time and I have certainly been guilty of over stepping what is appropriate and I am sorry for that as well..

I just hope that we (professionals) always put the industry's good before our own. It needs all the help it can get.

its without saying Bear, thank you.





Thank you Jonathan for your gracious reply to my apology to you.
I appreciate it very much. smile

Cordially,

Bear




Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)
Re: Can a dealer survive now without Chinese brand [Re: Bear 1] #1168954
03/26/09 12:51 AM
03/26/09 12:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
This kiss and make up stuff is sickening. Worse than a Mexican soap opera! You guys know you're going to be at each other's throats within a few days.

Frankly I'm disappointed. I expected Bear to kneel and perform seppuku for breaking the bushido. After Jonathan did the kaishakunin thing, he could clean up all the cutlery. Oh, well....another day another disappointment!


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Can a dealer survive now without Chinese brand [Re: turandot] #1168955
03/26/09 12:56 AM
03/26/09 12:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
D
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member
Diaphragmatic  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by turandot
This kiss and make up stuff is sickening. Worse than a Mexican soap opera! You guys know you're going to be at each other's throats within a few days.

Frankly I'm disappointed. I expected Bear to kneel and perform seppuku for breaking the bushido. After Jonathan did the kaishakunin thing, he could clean up all the cutlery. Oh, well....another day another disappointment!


Turandot.. your great. I really mean it too. You always call it exactly how you see it.

As I wrote my response I couldn't help but to think of what you would say.. This isn't far off. =)


Last edited by Diaphragmatic; 03/26/09 01:21 AM.

Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.
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