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what does 88-key sampling mean? #1162104
03/12/09 09:25 PM
03/12/09 09:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 95
A
Acquiescence Offline OP
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Acquiescence  Offline OP
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A

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 95
Does it mean like cheaper keyboards only record one key and then use computers to just pitch bend that one sample???
whereas more expensive sample all 88 of a real piano keys

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Re: what does 88-key sampling mean? [Re: Acquiescence] #1162113
03/12/09 09:48 PM
03/12/09 09:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 87
leon2245 Offline
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leon2245  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 87
I think it means a unique sample made for each key vs. for instance sampling every other or every third & transposing those to the keys in-between.

Re: what does 88-key sampling mean? [Re: leon2245] #1162141
03/12/09 11:04 PM
03/12/09 11:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,930
El Cajon, CA
88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
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88Key_PianoPlayer  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,930
El Cajon, CA
Are there any digital pianos currently on the market that:

1. Sample all 88 notes individually
2. Don't loop each sample -- they sample the entire decay of the note, rather than sampling a couple seconds and looping part of the sample to artificially create the decay
3. Sample at least 4 or 5 velocities per note, preferably 8 or more
4. also have separate samples for una-corda and sustain pedal, multiplied by the # of velocities per note
5. When they have multiple piano sounds, they sample a different piano for each sound, rather than using an equalizer on one bank of samples (for example, rather than EQ'ing a Yamaha C7, they'll separately sample a Hamburg Steinway D, a NY Steinway D, a Bosendorfer 280, Yamaha CFIIIs, Estonia L273, etc)... and for the honky-tonk piano they sample an older upright that actually has naturally gone out of tune so the unisons sound like you're playing with the vibrato enabled on an organ.... (and they actually say either in the owner's manual or on the on-board LCD screen what piano (make, model, serial number) they sample for each piano tone)

I'm quite sure the Roland HP-207 or RD-300GX, Yamaha CVP-309 or CP300, Kawai CA-91 or MP-8, etc, don't combine all those criteria. (Also, I'm mainly asking about ones in the stage piano form factor, for the purpose of keeping the retail cost under $3000 (and it wouldn't need to have all the other fancy features that some DPs have), although upright-style furniture ones would be ok, too, just not the baby grand style.)

What comes the closest to that? I know there are software pianos, like Synthogy Ivory, that do it that way, but are there any actual physical digital pianos that do that?


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Re: what does 88-key sampling mean? [Re: 88Key_PianoPlayer] #1162154
03/12/09 11:52 PM
03/12/09 11:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,492
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
88Key_PianoPlayer, I believe the KAWAI DP1 would meet the first four points on your list, however this utilises a software piano, so is arguably ineligible.

The highly anticipated V-Piano will offer potentially unlimited levels of velocity for each note, however as you are no doubt aware, this relies on synthetic modelling, rather than sampling to generate the piano tone.

Finally, there is the beautiful Avant Grand from Yahama, which utilises samples recorded at different points on the soundboard, and played back via independent speakers.

In summary, I very much doubt that we will see a digital piano that fulfils all five points on you wish list in the near future, simply because it would be too expensive to develop and manufacture. While such an instrument would be an absolute dream to play, the majority of pianist are unlikely to demand such lofty specifications.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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Re: what does 88-key sampling mean? [Re: Kawai James] #1162237
03/13/09 08:49 AM
03/13/09 08:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,011
H
Horwinkle Offline
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Horwinkle  Offline
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Sticking to the high-end console DPs only ...

1. Sample all 88 notes individually.
Rolands have 88-key samples. The Yamaha's have 30- or 50-key samples.

2. Don't loop each sample -- they sample the entire decay of the note, rather than sampling a couple seconds and looping part of the sample to artificially create the decay.
Don't know, sorry.

3. Sample at least 4 or 5 velocities per note, preferably 8 or more.
The Yamaha CLP380 has 5-level, CLP370, CLP340, CLP270, and CLP280 have 4. (Roland doesn't provide specs on this topic.)

4. Have separate samples for una-corda and sustain pedal, multiplied by the # of velocities per note
Roland and Yamaha do not spec this on their web page.

5. When they have multiple piano sounds, they sample a different piano for each sound, rather than using an equalizer on one bank of samples (for example, rather than EQ'ing a Yamaha C7, they'll separately sample a Hamburg Steinway D, a NY Steinway D, a Bosendorfer 280, Yamaha CFIIIs, Estonia L273, etc)...
I don't think either Yamaha or Roland do this. If you want a variety of piano samples, you need to use a software piano package.


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