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Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11604
12/15/08 05:13 AM
12/15/08 05:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
mcasl Offline OP
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mcasl  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
Dear all,
I am an adult beginner ---34 yo., started taking classes 1 month ago ---. I first thought that I would be ok with a DP, but I am starting to be more inclined to buy an upright acoustic.
In according to your experience and taste, what would you prefer, a silent upright like the kawai K3 atx or a bigger, and I guess better, kawai K5 plus a cheap dp ---casio privia or something like that? Both solutions would allow me to do silent practice during the night. I assume that the k3atx would provide me good action during silent practice, but may be ---I am too unexperience to tell-- the K5 would provide me more joy during noisy practice.

Of course, you can transfer the question to any other brand you are more used to.

Thanks in advance for your advice.


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Formerly 1WeekPlayer. Currently practicing:
- Arabesque 1. Debussy
- Wiener Urtext Primo collection
http://www.youtube.com/mcasl
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Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11605
12/15/08 04:14 PM
12/15/08 04:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,348
Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Bear 1 Offline
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Bear 1  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,348
Hillsboro Beach South Florida
In my opinion, buy the bigger K5 and an inexpensive digital piano.
Your main pleasure comes from playing the acoustic piano, so buy the one you like the best.


Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)
Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11606
12/16/08 07:43 AM
12/16/08 07:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 256
Houston, TX
T
tjbsb Offline
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tjbsb  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 256
Houston, TX
I tried the K3 and the K5 and bought the K5. It is a wonderful piano with a big, rich sound for an upright.

Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11607
12/16/08 08:34 AM
12/16/08 08:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
mcasl Offline OP
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mcasl  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
:-) Right, I should have guessed. Now I want a silent K5. Oooohhh, It was my fault to ask :-) I'll need to make an effort to keep my budget in the original limits.

Thank you Bear1 and tjbsb fo your answers. As an unexperienced player I found PW forums as the most helpful guide in my piano related decisions.

On one hand, I think that it would be great to have a single instrument with 'real' action both when practising at day and night. The main advantages being perfect action. The main disadvantage would be that it is a piano I can't move on holidays or on those weekends that I am out of home.

On the other hand, I think that for the same money I can buy a better acoustic and a worse digital. The main advantage is that I can move the digital with me. The main dissadvantage would be that during night practice I would have a worse action.

Let's try another perspective: Do you consider that practicing on a dp a considerable time while having an acoustic for frequent practice as well (let's think 50%-50%) will do me any wrong? Or would you rather sacrifice a little quality in your acoustic in order to always have perfect action?

Thank you in advance.


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Formerly 1WeekPlayer. Currently practicing:
- Arabesque 1. Debussy
- Wiener Urtext Primo collection
http://www.youtube.com/mcasl
Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11608
12/16/08 03:05 PM
12/16/08 03:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,302
Finland
J
Jan-Erik Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Jan-Erik  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,302
Finland
What is a perfect action? The actions of different brands and models of aucustic upright pianos differ a lot - too much indeed (: . And so do the preferences of pianists. I myself, for instance, prefer a light, but not too sensitive action. IMO it makes it easier to play fast and control the dynamics.

The actions you will encounter when playing on other pianos will anyhow differ from what you get accustomed to, so considering this, it is good you can excercise on two slightly different actions.

New Kawai uprights should have fairly good actions, and in your shoes would go for the K5.

A stage model digital like Yamaha P80 have a firm and nevertheless sensitive action. The key weight you cannot alter, but the dynamic response can be regulated. With earphones you can get it at a very favourable rate - much less than you have to pay for a silent system. But buy a good rack - no X-model - and a separate big music desk!

IMO you can well play 50 % of the time on a descent digital and your technique will not suffer, provided you do not decrease the volume under the normal which could lead to less sensitive playing. Anyhow you can get aquainted withhte score, learn notes, and play scales and stretching excercises.

It is the resonance properties and the function and feel of the sustain pedal where the real difference lies between cheap digiatals and good aucoustic pianos.

Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11609
12/16/08 03:23 PM
12/16/08 03:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
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theJourney Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
I agree with you that it is compelling idea to have one beautiful new instrument for both acoustic and silent playing.

If you are going to buy a Silent Piano, do yourself a favor and audition a Yamaha U1 or U3. Their silent system sounds much better than Kawai's Anytime. I know someone with Anytime in their Kawai grand and they are deeply unsatisfied.

There are a number of advantages for choosing the acoustic you want and getting a digital piano next to it, including:

- less wear and tear on the acoustic action;
- better quality of sound reproduction on the digital than the inbuilt silent systems;
- ability to have two people practicing simultaneously;
- ability to move the digital to another room or another house or take on holidays;
- no potential negative impact on resale value of building a soon-to-be-obsolete electronic system into a wooden acoustic instrument;
- learning to adjust playing to more than one instrument;

You can always tell the Kawai dealer that you are choosing between a Kawai and Yamaha and leaning towards the Yamaha because of Kawai's inferior Anytime system and that if they want to cinch the deal that they need to throw in a Kawai digital piano into the deal on the K5.

Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11610
12/17/08 04:07 PM
12/17/08 04:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
mcasl Offline OP
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mcasl  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
Thank you Jan-Erik and theJourney for your advice.

Jan-Erik, When I used 'perfect' was with a meaning of 'the real thing' of course assuming its imperfection.

theJourney, your list of advantages convinced me.

The fact of considering two instruments makes me think of a third option: buying first the dp and the acoustic in 3 or 4 years, mostly waiting for my children to grow up to the point they don't destroy the acoustic hitting it bad -- I already have a 2yo son that is very active in hitting the furniture and I hope to have another in a year from now.


Best regards


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Formerly 1WeekPlayer. Currently practicing:
- Arabesque 1. Debussy
- Wiener Urtext Primo collection
http://www.youtube.com/mcasl
Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11611
12/19/08 09:19 AM
12/19/08 09:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
mcasl Offline OP
Full Member
mcasl  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
Today I visited a local Kawai dealer. That visit ruined my plans --- those of buying a digital first. I could try a K3 while I was trying the digitals, and you know what? I should not have done that. Big mistake! What a beauty, wonderful sound! I felt in awe while listening the beast roaring as I was feeling the vibrations from the finger tip all trough my body. I can't wait to locate a dealer with a K5 at hand so as to give it a try as well.

I don't know if I will be patient enough to buy a dp first while waiting for my children to grow up a little bit to the point they are less destructive. In adition to that, I have found that it will be a problem to accomodate a dp + upright due to space restrictions, may be not now but certainly in the mid term as the children grow in parallel with their needs. So now I leaning more to the K3atx.

I guess that now I'll start thinking on how to protect both the piano and the children.

Do you have any trick to protect the piano from active little children?


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Formerly 1WeekPlayer. Currently practicing:
- Arabesque 1. Debussy
- Wiener Urtext Primo collection
http://www.youtube.com/mcasl
Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11612
12/30/08 01:18 PM
12/30/08 01:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
mcasl Offline OP
Full Member
mcasl  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
Today I tried a Yamaha P114 Silent and I liked it more than the Kawai K3. As an acoustic I happened to find a more appeling cristal singing voice. As a digital, I liked it much more than the CA-51 sound, which I think is similar to the anytimeX as far as I could read since I couldn't find an anytimeX to try.

It had a similar price as the k3-atx. Should'nt the P114 be inferior? I found that I like it better but I kind of feel that if I buy it I will be paying more for less --- but I like it more.
How does the P114 compare to the K3 for you?

Thanks in advance.


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Formerly 1WeekPlayer. Currently practicing:
- Arabesque 1. Debussy
- Wiener Urtext Primo collection
http://www.youtube.com/mcasl
Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11613
01/04/09 08:13 AM
01/04/09 08:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3
Netherlands
R
Rolf's Offline
Junior Member
Rolf's  Offline
Junior Member
R

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3
Netherlands
Hello! The following worked for me, you might consider doing the same:

First I choose a piano with the perfect sound. And then I had the module QuietTime Magic Star Silent System V4 ( by www.PianoDisc.de ) installed. Now I have all I need: perfect accoustic sound and no angry neighbours because of hours of dull practising.

My experience with this system is that the hammer action in silent mode is only slightly different from the normal action. Of course the hammers do not touch the strings so you won't feel all of the original feedback but this is not an item.

The provided piano sounds, when using quality headphones, are good. Also included are the '128 General MIDI' sounds according to global standard.

You shouldn't worry about the remark 'soon to be absolute electronic system'. Of course all electronic equiptment is outdated the very moment you purchase is. With this system you buy the accoustic piano that fits you with the option to go silent.

And because of its function 'MIDI out' you will be able to link any future electronic devices to the silent module, should you wish so. You can even link it to music software on your pc or Mac and have your music recorded and then print out the scores on paper.

For price details in your country, you should contact PianoDisc. And no, they are not paying me to write this!(I wish they were...) I just found their system the best at that time (February 2008).

Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11614
01/06/09 09:05 PM
01/06/09 09:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
mcasl Offline OP
Full Member
mcasl  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
Thank you Rolf's!
I have read with interest your post. I will consider it as well.
Best wishes


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Formerly 1WeekPlayer. Currently practicing:
- Arabesque 1. Debussy
- Wiener Urtext Primo collection
http://www.youtube.com/mcasl
Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11615
01/22/09 06:42 PM
01/22/09 06:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
mcasl Offline OP
Full Member
mcasl  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
Dear all,
After many tos and fros, I have finally decided not to buy a silent piano. I bought a roland hp-207 instead, delivered today. I have not discarded the idea of buying an acoustic in the future, but right now the digital fits better with my time constrains as I found myself practicing mainly at night.
Thank you for your advice and inspiration.
Best regards


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Formerly 1WeekPlayer. Currently practicing:
- Arabesque 1. Debussy
- Wiener Urtext Primo collection
http://www.youtube.com/mcasl
Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11616
01/22/09 07:23 PM
01/22/09 07:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,900
SoCal
Plowboy Offline

2000 Post Club Member
Plowboy  Offline

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,900
SoCal
Are the acoustic pianos still too loud when you use the practice pedal?


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11617
01/23/09 07:29 PM
01/23/09 07:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
mcasl Offline OP
Full Member
mcasl  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
Spain
Gary: I am afraid that I prefer not to take chances on that issue since my little son's bedroom is next to the piano room and I am talking about playing at as late as 02:00 or 03:00AM. That's why I was either going to buy a silent piano or a digital plus acoustic pack.

In the end, the idea of buying them following a two steps approach seduced me. While choosing acoustic, I could not discern which one I liked more, as the two main alternatives had both pros and cons on the subjective area, and I did not feel sure on whether the cons were going to be bearable in the long term. I guess that none of them was perfect and that I would have liked to mix the best from both.

I think that it will take significant time until I outgrow my new digital. And when that happens, I will have formed better criteria to choose the acoustic; and who knows, may be at that time I would rather prefer a grand instead of an upright.

As of now, I find the hp-207 really appealing and I am practicing longer periods of time having lots of fun, which I think justifies the money spent by now.


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Formerly 1WeekPlayer. Currently practicing:
- Arabesque 1. Debussy
- Wiener Urtext Primo collection
http://www.youtube.com/mcasl
Re: Silent k3 ATX versus k5 #11618
01/24/09 05:32 AM
01/24/09 05:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
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theJourney Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
Congratulations. I am sure you will enjoy your Roland hp-207. Being able to play and practice at whatever time of day you can squeeze in is such an important benefit, especially for adult beginners and re-starters. Without digitals I would never have been able to seriously get back into playing. Especially for those living in tight quarters such as Europe and Asia, digitals are a Godsend.

Watch out, though. The more you play, the more you will realize its shortcomings in ability to create nuance of sound and the more you play the acoustic at your lessons the more you will miss it at home and you will want to have a nice acoustic in addition for "real" piano playing. Your family will be appreciative of the fact that you can continue to execute the enormously annoying initial study, repetition and coordination work on the digital and use your acoustic for sharing more finished music with friends and family.

Enjoy!


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