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Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX #1158363 03/06/09 09:00 AM
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Be fair to yourself. Play every piano you can get your hands on. You may indeed come away with the opinion that Bosendorfer is the best piano out there. However, you can't judge something as superior without judging it's competition.


This is the simplest truth stated in this thread. Bosendorfer indeed builds a spectacular piano and each and every step in the manufacturing process is carefuly thought out and executed flawlessly.

But at the end of the day, if a Grotrian or a Bechstein speaks to you in a way that no Bosendorfer has, then you've found the best piano for you.

I spent a week with Bosendorfer this past summer. The manager of our restoration facility spent 5 weeks in Vienna and I arrived at the end of his visit there. It ws truly a learning experience for me. I chose some pictures that I took in the factory and made a "slideshow tour" on our Bosendorfer page. If you are interested, feel free to visit and click on "Bosendorfer Tour":

Bosendorfer Tour


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
Rich Galassini #1158452 03/06/09 11:55 AM
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Thanks for the great pictures of your tour Rich. I found them extremely fascinating, especially the "butcher block" rim construction.

I never liked the gloss ebony finishes much until I visited the former Boesendorfer showroon in NYC. They must do something special with those finishes also.

Would you consider trading my BB plus free tennis lessons for a Bosie in your showroom?

Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
wg73 #1158456 03/06/09 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wg73
I'm also interested that many here feel Steinways are "overpriced". A friend of mine just purchased a black polished ebony Bosendorfer 7'4" for $90K US (list price $119K). That is about $15K more than the LIST price of a Steinway B.

?


Well Steinways generally sell at list price as opposed to other pianos. The Bosie you mentioned is also 6" longer than the Steinway B. Finally, the Steinway price you mentioned is for a satin finish. I don't remember how much extra Steinway charges for an ebony gloss finish but it's a lot. I think it's more than 5K and closer to 10K.

Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
rapide #1158490 03/06/09 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rapide
I asked Bosendorfer to put a transfer of the Imperial Austrian eagle on the music desk of my piano while it was still in the factory. They happily did this at no extra charge. A nice touch.
John


I would also say that as a company, Bosendorfer has been quite wonderful to deal with. Very friendly folks, both here in the states and in Austria. So going beyond the piano itself to the company, I can't say enough positive things about them.

Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
bitWrangler #1158516 03/06/09 01:54 PM
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Which is the best piano?
This is a question that customers ask me time after time when visiting our showroom.

As my business represents a major part of very high-end makers, and side-by-side comparisons are always available, this is a frequently asked question.
Regardless of my opinion and the answer I provide, time after time, I see customers who are looking for the absolute ‘best’ find what they are after…yet they do not find it in the pianos of only one make.

At the highest level, each manufacturer is looking after both objective and subjective tonal characteristics.

The more objective qualities, like sustain, tonal variation and dynamic range, are universally accepted as assisting the pianist in making music.
However, the subjective tonal characteristics, which reflect that particular manufacturers philosophy of what a piano should sound like, are the separating factor between one high end make to another.

The preference of emphasizing certain tonal qualities over others is reflected by the differences in high end piano designs and tone/touch characteristics.

Furthermore, even when considering only the highest level of manufacturers, the ‘best’ piano is not only a subjective opinion reflecting the preference of the player, but also a matter of personal fit to many other factors.

For example, would a piano that sounds at its best in a large concert hall with 1000 people in attendance is necessarily the right ‘fit’ for a living room?
(Please note the current threads of how to muffle a piano…)
some pianos will sound at their best in smaller rooms (‘smaller rooms’ may include large 30’ x 40’ living rooms with 10’ ceilings), while others may sound at their best in large concert halls.

So the ‘best’ piano is a combination of a high level of design, parts, material, execution, workmanship and attention to detail…along with the preferences of the player/listener, and the right fit to their style of music, room design and acoustics, and the intended use of the piano among other factors.


Ori Bukai - Owner/Founder of Allegro Pianos - CT / NYC area.

One can usually play at our showroom:

Bluthner, Steingraeber, Estonia, Haessler, Sauter, Kawai, Steinway, Bosendorfer and more.

www.allegropianos.com
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
Ori #1158518 03/06/09 02:06 PM
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i adore them- so gorgous


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
bitWrangler #1158536 03/06/09 02:47 PM
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Rich:
I don't know how I missed your photo slide show before. It's wonderful--a terrific addition to the video's Bosendorfer has. Plus, for me, it was neat to see so many aspects of the 225 in particular.
Thanks for sharing this.

Apple:
I agree--they are beautiful to look at and play.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by SHPiano; 03/06/09 02:53 PM.

Bösendorfer 225 My New BÖSENDORFER Arrives
Blüthner Style 9 My 1926 Blüthner Arrives
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Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
Rich Galassini #1158550 03/06/09 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
If you are interested, feel free to visit and click on "Bosendorfer Tour":

Bosendorfer Tour

Wonderful, wonderful virtual tour. I want to thank you for it - however you need to know that the entire text for some slides cannot be read as it's too long for the window - and I cannot re-size the window! (FireFox browser)


-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
http://www.doubleveil.net
1918 Hobart M. Cable "H"
"No-one would knowingly provide Franz Liszt with a mediocre piano." -E. M. Good
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
Zormpas #1158731 03/06/09 08:13 PM
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Zorba,

Thanks for that "heads up". That is the first time that I've heard that from someone. I wonder how many others are experiencing that and simply did not know they were missing text or just did not say anything to us.

Thanks again, smile


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Visit our Online Store
The Science Channel documents our piano restoration
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
Rich Galassini #1159369 03/08/09 03:18 AM
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Bösendorfer is definitely a first class piano. I´d place them in the middle of the "tier one" field. I have played 4 of them at Bösendorfer hall in Vienna and maybe 5 more side by side with other top brands in Hong Kong. I have never played the Imperial though. As they charge more, along with Fazioli and Steinway, and are no better or worse then some other top brands, I think they can take a bit more of a scrutiny.

Althought they are not quite to my taste compared to some other brands I can see why some would place Bösendorfer at the top.

Last edited by pianistical; 03/08/09 03:50 AM.

“There are only two important things which I took with me on my way to America, It´s been my wife Natalja and my precious Blüthner.” – Sergei Rachmaninov

1913 Blüthner model 6
1929 Blüthner model 9.
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
pianistical #1159804 03/08/09 10:38 PM
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I feel uncomfortable describing **any** piano as 'the best' or similar. Angela Hewitt on a Fazioli produces sublime sonorities. Andras Schiff on his very sadly no longer available Schubert Sonatas has equally wonderful results on a Bösendorfer. Ditto those Beethoven sonatas using a Bösendorfer. And listening to Leif Andsnes on his non-Imperial Bösendorfer playing Haydn Piano Sonatas is **personally** better than any Steinway recording I have. I can go on as most members can.

But!! Anyone who dismisses Steinway, especially the European one out of hand, simply is sadly predjudiced.

We do need however a non-monopoly in piano recordings. Until some years back, this was occurring in the U.S. with Steinway. As with any monopoly, - I am using the term in a colloquial sense here - even where there is free choice involved I just feel people miss out.

And you what? I honestly believe that Steinway's management would agree with this.

Greetings from a bush fire recovering Victoria,

ILH

PS O.T. - We live in Nilumbik Shire (North Warrandyte) where most of the fatalities occurred. I know there were more than one piano burnt. Nothing compared though to loss of human life and those still recovering. Comments from the U.S. - and elsewhere - were hugely comforting. Thanks people.


"Oh for a world with no 'muzak' in stores ...."
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
Semper Bösendorfer #1159813 03/08/09 10:53 PM
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Yes, Bosendorfer really is all that. PM me for a pdf of "The engineering of concert grand pianos" by Richard Dain. You will have to provide an email address.

Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
Zormpas #1159853 03/09/09 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Zormpas

Wonderful, wonderful virtual tour. I want to thank you for it - however you need to know that the entire text for some slides cannot be read as it's too long for the window - and I cannot re-size the window! (FireFox browser)


I have NoScript installed (which can be gotten free here: http://noscript.net/ ) and which makes browsing a bit safer in general - but in particular, it makes this tour open in a normal window, meaning all the text is visible, in case you wanna go back and see it.

Oh - thanks to Rich for all the Bosie pics, great to see 'em.


Brodmann BU 125 upright
1880 Blüthner 7'2" grand
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
djtoast #1160112 03/09/09 01:45 PM
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I have to make a correction. Those Eva Knardahl recordings of Grieg were recorded on a 275 not an Imperial.

Dan


Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
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Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
DanLaura Larson #1160203 03/09/09 04:17 PM
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Expensive? Yes. "Best"? Not really!

Although I like cats, I don't like pianos that sound like kittens...meow...meow...

I also found their look tacky.

I'll take a Steinway over a Boesendorfer.


♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
pno #1160224 03/09/09 04:57 PM
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One thing I have learned in my years representing Bosendorfer is that the differences in expressiveness are not always instantly self evident. I recommend you play for at least an hour to build your observations. Many exclaim that they didn't believe they could do this or that until they played for awhile.


Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
Marty Flinn #1160234 03/09/09 05:22 PM
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pno:
Although I like cats, I don't like pianos that sound like kittens...meow...meow...

You might perhaps decline an invitation to my house then!


[Linked Image]

smile

Michael B.


There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
Marty Flinn #1160238 03/09/09 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty Flinn
One thing I have learned in my years representing Bosendorfer is that the differences in expressiveness are not always instantly self evident. I recommend you play for at least an hour to build your observations. Many exclaim that they didn't believe they could do this or that until they played for awhile.


Marty's observation is very keen and important. I'm not a great pianist, but the Bosie makes me a better one. I'm able to do more (more color, more nuance) with better control than with any other piano I've played. I fell in love with my piano's tone and touch having played it for only about an hour over 2 days but in the 2 months since I've owned it, I've discovered aspects that I didn't realize were there. I imagine this is true of other top-tier instruments.

Oh, and pno, while I love cats (I've got 5 of them running around my house along with 2 labs) let me assure you that my Bosie does not sound like a cat--at least not a domesticated cat. She can roar and purr but "meow" is not one of the sounds she makes. And while "chacun à son goût" I can't imagine many would agree that my 225 looks tacky. But, hey, what's a forum for if not to pointlessly provoke others right?

Last edited by SHPiano; 03/09/09 07:17 PM.

Bösendorfer 225 My New BÖSENDORFER Arrives
Blüthner Style 9 My 1926 Blüthner Arrives
Shoninger upright
Roland FP7
Yamaha EZ30
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
SHPiano #1160308 03/09/09 07:30 PM
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I find everything about the look of a Bosendorfer, from the rim to the plate to the logo, to be elegant.


Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/
Re: Is Bosendorfer Really All "They" Say it is?
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX #1160347 03/09/09 09:06 PM
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meow...meow...meow...

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YAMAHA C2M PE
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