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#1159723 - 03/08/09 09:24 PM Damping Resonance vs. Stereo Sustain Samples  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
rgb12 Offline
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rgb12  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
What is the difference between these two features? The definitions for both in the yamaha manuals see to be same, basically to simulator the resonance created when the damper pedal is depressed.

ie.
CLP-330 - Has damper resonance but no stereo sustain samples
P140 - Has stero sustain samples but no damper resonance

So, which would sound better when the damper pedal is depressed?

Comparing digital pianos is frustrating; too many fancy names and not enough good explanations of the underlying technology being used. (of course, thats why we try them out before buying smile )

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#1159730 - 03/08/09 09:43 PM Re: Damping Resonance vs. Stereo Sustain Samples [Re: rgb12]  
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Horwinkle Offline
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Horwinkle  Offline
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Ignore the marketing hype and just trust your ears.
If you like (or dislike) what you hear, that's all that matters.

#1162551 - 03/14/09 12:02 AM Re: Damping Resonance vs. Stereo Sustain Samples [Re: Horwinkle]  
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rgb12 Offline
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rgb12  Offline
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Anyone know the difference between stereo sustain sampling and dynamic resonance? I'm quite curious as they both pertain to the damper sound.

#1162568 - 03/14/09 12:49 AM Re: Damping Resonance vs. Stereo Sustain Samples [Re: rgb12]  
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Horwinkle Offline
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Horwinkle  Offline
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Stereo Sustain Samples
The Yamaha web page has sample mp3 files, comparing with and without stereo sustain sampling (SSS). It seems that **with** SSS you hear the decay of each note, as recorded. As a tone decays, it doesn't just get softer. It changes in a subtle way. Without SSS you won't hear that change. (The difference is significant. Frankly, I find this more important and noticeable than string resonance. BTW, the also have mp3 files comparing with/without string resonance.)

Dynamic Resonance
That's not a Yamaha term is it? Do you mean Dynamic Damper Effect (DDE)? Yamaha lists that as a feature on the CLP240, 270, 280, 340, 370, 380. My 240 has a button to turn it on and off. The difference ... nothing that I can hear!

Yamaha describes it as follows:
.. "DDE recreates the subtle resonances that occur when
.. you press the damper pedal down on a grand piano."

Translation:
.. "Bullcrap."

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#1162617 - 03/14/09 07:07 AM Re: Damping Resonance vs. Stereo Sustain Samples [Re: Horwinkle]  
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Geoffk Offline
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Geoffk  Offline
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Tokyo, Japan
It seems like if they recorded the sample properly (i.e. the whole note with decay and not just the initial strike plus a loop) then you would automatically get the "SSS" effect as the original recording source decays. Of course you'd you to do that for each of the different loudness sample levels (3, 4 or 5) on each key. But any recent DP with good samples should have a natural decay sampled from the original. I'm not sure if that should have to be a "feature".

As for damper resonance, this is *very* noticeable on the Roland HPs and adds a lot to the overall sound. If you don't notice it much on the Yamahas, than it hasn't been implemented well, because it's a very important element to a realistic piano sound.


#1162673 - 03/14/09 11:01 AM Re: Damping Resonance vs. Stereo Sustain Samples [Re: Geoffk]  
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Horwinkle Offline
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Horwinkle  Offline
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As for SSS ... yes, it seems that if they sampled the decay, they wouldn't need to do looping. So, if they loop, they must not be using decay samples. Well, I don't know their specific methods. They have very little to say about it on the web, and that little bit is mostly marketing-speak.

As for string resonance ... I do hear it on the Yamaha mp3. It's there, but not very noticeable. It's not very noticeable on acoustics either, or on the synths that I've tried (Pianoteq, etc.) Yes, I hear it, but I just don't find it striking. I guess it's easy and cheap to implement, compared to some other improvements that would produce greater benefit (like better speakers).

#1162743 - 03/14/09 02:43 PM Re: Damping Resonance vs. Stereo Sustain Samples [Re: Horwinkle]  
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mahlzeit Offline
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Netherlands
You can also approximate the decay of a string by putting the looping sample through a gentle low-pass filter. This slowly removes the higher harmonics from the sound. (This is actually the most basic form of physical modeling.)


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#1163332 - 03/15/09 08:26 PM Re: Damping Resonance vs. Stereo Sustain Samples [Re: mahlzeit]  
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Geoffk Offline
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Geoffk  Offline
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Tokyo, Japan
Actually, I find string resonance to be a very subtle effect, and I might not miss it much if it was gone. The damper resonance is very noticeable, though, and I'd miss that a lot. You hear that every time you press the pedal.


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