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#14777 - 02/25/06 10:52 PM brodmann  
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melissap Offline
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I was in to a store today where I heard a Brodmann piano, and I really liked the sound/feel of it, but I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about them? Please let me know!!! The salesman said they are made by the same people who make Bösendorfer pianos.

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#14778 - 02/26/06 02:57 PM Re: brodmann  
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Benecs Offline
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Hi! Brodmans are good quality chineese pianos. They are not made by the same people like bösendorfers. :-)


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#14779 - 02/26/06 03:10 PM Re: brodmann  
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Hm, just about a year ago I read about brodmanns been made in china, but now there is nothing about that on the homepage. Take a look:

http://www.brodmann-pianos.com/


1897 Blüthner Model 6
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#14780 - 02/26/06 08:47 PM Re: brodmann  
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We just started carrying them at the store. I like what I see so far. I emailed them with a comment and got a response from the company President - that tells me they really care about the customer.

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#14781 - 02/28/06 12:06 AM Re: brodmann  
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Awesome! Thanks for the responses...only thing that bothers me a bit is that the dealer swore they were made by the same people (literally) that make Bosendorfers...he saw that I was skeptical, but was unable to show any proof other than the info that Bosendorfer studied under Brodmann before going off on his own. Anyways, I liked the Brodman better than the Yamaha and Kawais that I played and the salesman quoted a price of $3900 for a new 47" ebony Brodmann-what are you selling them at in Florida, Bob? Thanks!!!

#14782 - 02/28/06 01:43 PM Re: brodmann  
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I'm sure it's a great piano, I have never played one, but a famous hungarian pianist told me about them and said it would be a great piano (of course you cannot compare them with bösendorfers. Anyway I'm still sure it's not made by people from Bösendorfer. Maybe they have learned at bösendorfer. I don't know.


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#14783 - 03/30/06 01:54 AM Re: brodmann  
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Well, after further study/talks with others, I purchased the Brodmann, and I absolutely love it!!! It was delivered three weeks ago and I can't stop playing! Thanks again for all your input, I appreciate it!

#14784 - 03/30/06 03:12 AM Re: brodmann  
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Brodman is just another of the many European-Chinese ventures which will introduce astoundingly new high quality pianos now coming on market.

Brodmann was a project started by Boesendorfer years ago before they had to eventually abondon it, this apparently due to financial difficulties.

The new Brodmann pianos and grands are really beautifully sounding pianos, each identically equipped with genuine German Strunz soundboards, German Helmut Abel hammers, the English made Langer action and, of course the obligatory high end German Roslau strings.

Judging by its tone, touch, design, manufactured components and execution of built and construction - Brodmann, from our experience and in our opinion, is a piano nearing almost now already the very edge of quality before reaching true high end.

Several piano dealers in the U.S. have confided to me that this is one of the most *worrisome* pianos coming up as a new competitior, especially in their own neighbourhood....

Due to their long affiliation with other, perhaps more established makes, it has often prevented them from 'making the move' adopting the line.

Gladly, we did not face the same kind of problem and have made our choice accordingly.

Norbert thumb


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#14785 - 03/30/06 02:17 PM Re: brodmann  
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Melissap - Congratulations on your new piano!!! Are you going to post pics for us?

#14786 - 08/04/06 07:30 PM Re: brodmann  
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Melissap, how has your Brodmann worked out for you? Any thoughts post-purchase that would help a prospective Brodmann buyer? I am impressed with the Brodmann sound quality. I have read all I could about them from this forum and web searching. The price I was quoted was $4,900 new, which is quite a bit higher than the quote you posted back in February of this year. Does anyone have thoughts on whether this is an appropriate price? Or any other thoughts regarding Brodmann quality? Thanks for any thoughts or recommendations out there.

#14787 - 08/04/06 09:57 PM Re: brodmann  
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I have been inside some Brodmann grands. Very nice quality, touch and tone. A very solid representation of what may be much more common in the future: European-Chinese pianos that are coming out a lot nicer than the Chinese pianos of the past, and competing strongly with mid-range European pianos. From what I have seen I would call them an excellent piano at the price range they are in.

Another I have seen that has broken away from the reputation of Chinese-assembled pianos as 'low end' is Hailun.

I suppose eventually they will have pianos assembled there capable of competing in each quality tier. But as yet I have not seen a hint of Tier 1.

#14788 - 08/04/06 09:59 PM Re: brodmann  
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Sorry, I didn't notice this thread was so old. But maybe my info will be of value to someone anyway.

#14789 - 08/04/06 10:48 PM Re: brodmann  
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As long as the thread has been revived: Most, if not all, of their uprights are made in Europe. The grands are made in China. The company was founded by some ex-Bosie guys, but the pianos are not "made by the same people..."

#14790 - 08/04/06 11:38 PM Re: brodmann  
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Sir Lurksalot,

Any idea where the uprights are made? Czech Republic perhaps?

#14791 - 08/05/06 12:16 AM Re: brodmann  
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Their "European Premium" line is made in Vienna and Germany, according to Fine. The rest are made in Hubei Province, China.

--Cy--


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
#14792 - 08/05/06 06:47 AM Re: brodmann  
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Colin Crawford Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Cy Shuster:
Their "European Premium" line is made in Vienna and Germany, according to Fine. The rest are made in Hubei Province, China.

--Cy--
I took the trouble to inspect and tune a 121 sized upright which was sold to a client in Gloucester by Bristol Piano Company and it was mightily impressive. Full agraffe construction, high quality components and immaculate build considering the price was around half that of a discounted Yamaha U1, a very good buy indeed and even vaguely comparable, although the U1 is the better instrument.

Unusually for the UK, the piano was sold with a ream of paperwork, which I read enthusiastically outlining the links between Brodmann and Bosie (Joseph Brodmann originally employed the young Ignaz Bosendorfer.... tenuous, but historically nice!) and their partnership with Langer actions. I must say that the action fitted to this particular 121 was very well machined, but bore no distinguishing marks nor branding of Langer. Construction seemed more Oriental than European, but certainly better than a goodly proportion of Polish and Czech examples. Reading on, I recall that the handbook said (to paraphrase a bit!) "The Instruments are made by our partner in the Far East under strict quality control standards which are regularly checked to ensure they meet the highest European standards..... the voicing and regulation are at a level which surpasses all standards of similar products from the Far East" No mention of Germany or Austria being sources of manufacture, but unashamedly, if slightly inscrutably "Far Eastern".

The recent links between Brodmann and Bosendorfer are mainly in that the CEO and President of Brodmann were both ex Bosie employees, Sales Director and UK Sales Manager respectively. And the company's based in Vienna.

From what I can see so far, this Brodmann certainly surpassed most budget pianos for quality at a low price. I would say that of the other Chinese pianos, the best from Perzina and Wendl & Lung are comparable. Bristol Piano Co inform me that the UK division is a delight to deal with, and the pianos arrive at the dealer well prepared out of the box. They certainly seem pleased enough to take on the brand in a big way.


G.Colin Crawford MPTA
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#14793 - 08/05/06 10:42 AM Re: brodmann  
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In this thread you can read some comments by one of their folks:

http://www.armleg.com/forum/viewtop...der=asc&start=0&mforum=pianosinc


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Over 1.3M (and counting) posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.
#14794 - 08/05/06 11:57 AM Re: brodmann  
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Quote
Full agraffe construction, high quality components and immaculate build considering the price was around half that of a discounted Yamaha U1, a very good buy indeed and even vaguely comparable, although the U1 is the better instrument.
In which way, *better*?

Norbert confused


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#14795 - 08/05/06 07:17 PM Re: brodmann  
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Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry of yesterday for an update on Brodmann performance. I am going to read and fully digest all that has been added. From my daughter's and my shopping today, we've narrowed to Brodmann 121 or a Yamaha U 1. Price difference is pretty big ($1,000+ higher for the Yamaha). At our final stop of the day we were introduced to very low end baby grand, which does hold intrigue. $4995 quoted price for a "house brand" piano made for this particular music store chain. Actually manufactured by Sejung in China, if I have that name right. Seems too good to be true on the price point. I am thinking that for that amount it couldn't be as good as billed. So I would be interested in hearing from you knowledgeble folks-- Are we better off sticking with the good quality uprights we've narrowed to above or is the low-end baby grand actually worth a look? Many thanks again for all the good information!

#14796 - 08/05/06 08:05 PM Re: brodmann  
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Sir Lurksalot Offline
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Unless the appearance of a very small grand is extremely appealing to you, there is no new grand for $4995 that approaches the quality of a good upright.

#14797 - 08/05/06 08:23 PM Re: brodmann  
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Norbert Offline
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I happen to know all the three pianos you are talking about.

Here's my own preference:

1] Brodmann
2] Yamaha
3] Sejung grand

Good luck in making your own choice.

Norbert smile


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#14798 - 08/06/06 03:24 AM Re: brodmann  
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If you`re interested in piano history, this may be interesting for you. The Boesendorfer workshop in Vienna was founded in 1828. And Boesendorfer was a pupil of Joseph Brodmann. Brodmann gave the workshop to Boesendorfer.
Pictures of original Brodmann-pianos

Yours, Stefan

#14799 - 08/06/06 10:25 AM Re: brodmann  
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Lucy,

In terms of parts and workmanship you are indeed comparing a higher quality upright to a lower quality grand. However the Sejungs I have worked on proved to be nice playing and nice sounding once they received all the prep they need. Not a high performance piano, but certainly adequate for players at less than a professional level.

Most dealers aren't going to do all the prep work needed to get them playing their best and many technicians don't know how to deal with this kind of work either. So be forewarned about that. OTOH the dealer will of course assure you that all needed prep work is done.

I personally have found them needing from 6 hours to 12 hours of prep.

Once they are prepped up, they may be a little more service-intensive in subsequent years than a higher quality piano because certain quality sacrifices are inevitably made to keep piano price low. Most people seem to have an ignorance-is-bliss approach and neglect to keep their piano in top shape (and a lot of technicians don't have the skills needed either), but for those who do keep everything adjusted perfectly, you are going to generally have more 'issues' with a lower quality piano.

There are certain advantages to the touch of a grand (at least when it is properly adjusted) in my opinion that few uprights can simulate. The actions operate on different principals. Also the sound of an upright is 'trapped in a box' or facing the wall, whereas grands have that nice 'open' tone.

So you have your pros and cons to the good upright versus the cheap grand. I don't think either decision is wrong, but hopefully you know more about it now.

#14800 - 08/07/06 06:46 AM Re: brodmann  
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Quote
Originally posted by Norbert:
Quote
Full agraffe construction, high quality components and immaculate build considering the price was around half that of a discounted Yamaha U1, a very good buy indeed and even vaguely comparable, although the U1 is the better instrument.
In which way?

Norbert confused
Hi Norbert!

Much as I was highly impressed by the Brodmann, and will now start to recommend it wholeheartedly to my clients looking for a 121 sized piano, I still feel that the (far more expensive) Japanese built U1 has the edge in build quality and ultimate sound. The best way I can describe this is that the U1 appears more 'controlled'. The Yamaha action is pretty much unbeatable at this price level. The amazing price of the Brodmann will however make a decent sized high quality upright affordable to many more people than ever before.

I also have yet to see more examples of Brodmanns to see whether consistency is as good as Yamaha. Are the Canadian/North American U1s all Japanese or are they US built? If your U1s are not Japanese built I'd have no way of judging how they compare.


G.Colin Crawford MPTA
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#14801 - 08/07/06 07:56 AM Re: brodmann  
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Wow! All the information here has been enormously helpful! Norbert, thanks for giving a ranking based on your hands-on experience with the 3 pianos I mentioned. Yours and others comments convinced me that in this decision tree, the better upright beats the lesser quality grand. But Brick, your point about the action on the grand vs. upright hits the nail on the head for where we are at this moment. When looking at how each piano works, the grand is so compelling. Then listening to my daughter, with some coaching from a very good piano salesperson, experiment on the grand with dynamics in a whole new way than ever before, I could see a tremendous amount of growth potential for her with a decent, though not professional grade, grand under her fingertips. I feel like I did a pretty good job researching the uprights and narrowing to the 2 alternatives and was ready to get a purchase done before school starts next month. But now that we are intrigued with the grand, I think I need to research that option a bit better before deciding. In other words, I am going to go back to square one for a little while so I can be more thorough about what options are available to us in the lower priced grand market. And now I'll go buy the Fine book, which I was going to try to get away without actually reading. All the good advice on this forum reminds me that this is the kind of purchase it is worth taking some time on! I will continue to read through the posts here and will log in with the results of our process in a month or two when we've hopefully made our purchase. Thanks again for all the help!

#14802 - 08/07/06 08:10 AM Re: brodmann  
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Quote
I am going to go back to square one for a little while so I can be more thorough about what options are available to us in the lower priced grand market.
In the $5K range for a grand, a used one might be your best option. With a little luck and searching, you should be able to find something that's bigger and higher quality than a new one for the same price.

#14803 - 08/07/06 08:19 AM Re: brodmann  
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What if the buyer was thinking about buying a more expensive grand piano in 3-5 years? Would this change the order of preference based on resale value?

I firmly believe that someone should only buy the piano they love in a given price range, but if it were a close call on preference would resale value tip the scales a different direction?

#14804 - 08/07/06 09:43 AM Re: brodmann  
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Sir Lurksalot Offline
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Sure, resale considerations might cause you to comprimise a bit now if you know you'll be upgrading in a few years. Still, resale value for a used piano should be better since it's already depreciated.

BTW - I was only responding to the quoted comment, so I'm not talking about uprights.

#14805 - 08/07/06 10:34 AM Re: brodmann  
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I have a colleague who's looking for a piano for her three children, and possibly for herself. She stopped in at Karnes (the local Yamaha dealer) and was offered as an alternative to Yamaha, a Brodmann 187 at $18,790. I told her I'd get the current Fine supplement and see what that had to say, and recommended that she visit other piano dealers in the area, get offers on their mid-quality Chinese brands to compare with and use as bargaining points toward the price she's been offered, possibly have her child's teacher evaluate the instrument, and certainly try to get at least 20% off that offering price (possibly more, depending on Fine's price scales). Oh, and lastly, not accept any instrument until all problems are fixed before buying. Any other comments?

I was a bit annoyed with the strong stress on the supposed Brodmann - Boesendorfer connection in their literature, but from what I'm reading above, it may be a reasonable piano at a somewhat lower price than was offered.

I also suggested she look at some used instruments (for instance, Cordogan's had a used Mason and Hamlin from the 1920s for $21K, I believe, last year) which I'd certainly strongly recommend she consider over the Brodmann if it were available only at the price offered.

Any comments?


There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians
#14806 - 08/07/06 12:17 PM Re: brodmann  
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In that price range, I'd look at the Nordiska 215 as well (7').

Just FYI, sometimes a teacher is (understandably) reluctant to recommend a piano better than their own. It's a good idea to bring another pianist along.

--Cy--

(halfway to LA from Chicago on Route 66)


Cy Shuster, RPT
www.shusterpiano.com
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Director, PTG Norfolk 2016 Technical Institute
http://convention.ptg.org
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