Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
52 registered members (ando, Agent88, Anita Potter, AZ_Astro, AprilE, 16 invisible), 1,636 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#245525 - 02/25/09 07:28 PM Piano with tonal colour for classical music  
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 109
Mike088 Offline
Full Member
Mike088  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 109
New Westminster, Canada
I know this is going to sound extremely subjective but I would like to ask for an opinion about Yamaha and Kawai pianos for classical music.

I was reading Larry Fine's 2007-2008 Piano Book supplement and I came across a comment about Kawai pianos not being ideal for classical music - but because they have such a good touch, many classical pianist still value them. And a second comment about Yamahas suggested that because of Yamaha piano's superior clarity they are great for jazz and pop but may not be so ideal for classical which might require more lush harmonic colour. I agree these are all subjective interpretations and I would not want to be making a negative comment towards these two versatile quality piano brands in a general sense. Personally I love playing Yamaha's for their crisp brightness and accurate feeling - I find them very suitable for Bach - my opinion. U1 is nice. I also enjoy playing Kawai pianos.

But I wouldn't mind an opinion about these ideas in terms of suitable tonal colour - or however we could describe the feel of the sound.

The reason I am asking is that I am looking to purchase an acoustic upright piano (to replace our digital Roland HP 1500). I am interested in the better quality consumer grade pianos (Larry Fine's "Group 3" category.) My family are all taking Royal Conservatory piano lessons and I myself have been playing piano for many years. Most of the music we play is classical. For example, my wife plays flute and often I accompany her on our piano. My eldest child is in grade 5 piano.

I will be going to a few dealers as well as looking at private sales to try out a few brands within my budget of about $2000-$4000 (likely looking for a used piano). I am determined to try all of these brands including Yamaha and Kawai so that I may formulate my own informed personal opinion.

I was considering:

Boston
Perzina (if I can find one here in Canada)
Pramberger, J.P. (Samick)
Weber, Albert (Young Chang)
Young Chang (Platinum Edition)
Baldwin
Essex (Young Chang/Korea with Steinway)
Knabe, Wm. (Samick)
Weber (Sovereign series) (Young Chang)
Young Chang (Professional Artist series)
and maybe:
Kohler & Campbell (Millennium series) (Samick)
Pramberger, J. (Samick)

am I missing any?

And of course I will be trying out Yahama and Kawai as well.

Does anyone have any thoughts on which of these brands might be more suitable for classical music? Of course we also sometimes play other styles and so a versatile piano sound would have benefits as well, but for the most part our music tends to be in the classical range.

I am also aware that pianos can be "voiced" and there may be variance within a single brand and so I suppose the best way to go about this is to try them out.

Do any classical musicians on this forum have a preference they may share with me in terms of these pianos (or others) which are within this budget range?

Thank you for any comments or opinions,

Mike

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#245526 - 02/25/09 09:20 PM Re: Piano with tonal colour for classical music  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,856
Rank Piano Amateur Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Rank Piano Amateur  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,856
I cannot imagine that any of the pianos on your list would be inappropriate for classical music. The test is whether you like how they sound when classical music is played on them. This is inevitably a highly subjective judgment. Many pianists play both classical music and other kinds, and few if any pianists keep separate pianos on which to play the various kinds of music they enjoy. You have started several threads on the subject of your search. The search will be very exciting, and you will learn a lot, but at least in my view what you need to do is go out and play pianos, as many as you can find. You will find a piano that calls to you, I am sure.

#245527 - 02/25/09 10:42 PM Re: Piano with tonal colour for classical music  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,298
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,298
Surrey, B.C.
Mike:

Play as many pianos as possible and come to a conclusion of your own.

The question you pose cannot simply be answered by 'brand' - it may be more one particular model of any one brand.

Once you like a particular piano, it should make additional work such as voicing relatively superfluous.

The reason I say this is that many buyers have unrealistic hopes how much a piano can be changed - and if changed - stay that way.

The other reason is that there are VERY few technicians who are really good in voicing and know what they are doing.

Voicing requires a lot of experience and a kind of special gift "listening in", something that requires a certain amount of musicality, not just technical skill on the part of the tuner.

My advice: get a piano with which you connect *from touch one* or at least work with someone you can trust and demonstrate his abilities to you.

Norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#245528 - 02/25/09 10:50 PM Re: Piano with tonal colour for classical music  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 127
boxijie Offline
Full Member
boxijie  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 127
Vancouver
In Vancouver and in your price range you are likely only going to find used Yamahas and some Kawais, but nothing else on your list, unless it is 80-100 years old (which you should stay away from) on Craigslist. You can get a used Yamaha U3 for the upper end of your price range.

Pacey's pianos has lots of "grey Market" Yamahas in your range, and they give a 10 year guarantee. You can also rent to own.

Showcase pianos has some new Baldwins over your range and some used ones in your range.

Fraser Pianos near Aldergrove has new Wm Knabe and Steigerman that may be in your range or a bit higher (5-6K). If you want to go higher, they also have very nice Bohemia and W. Hoffman for 8-10K. Those sound very nice, especially the Bohemia.

You can also go see Norbert (a frequent poster here) at Heritage pianos in Surrey and he can hook you up with a new Hailun or Brodmann. I think in your range or maybe up to 5k will get you a very nice Hailun that sounds 10x better than the Yamaha T118 that is in the similar price point.

I think you are going about it the right way. First fix your budget and then play lots of pianos and find the one that sounds the best in that budget.

I have been doing this also for a bit higher price point, but in your range, I think you should really go play a Hailun and/or Broadman. You will be surprised the quality and the sound of these new pianos and you are not paying extra for a name brand.

Happy hunting!

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#245529 - 02/26/09 03:08 AM Re: Piano with tonal colour for classical music  
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 109
Mike088 Offline
Full Member
Mike088  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 109
New Westminster, Canada
Thank you Norbert and Buzzey,
Glad to here there are local places I can visit instead of searching all over the internet. I appreciate all this advice which has helped me to focus my direction. Thanks for such helpful answers!

Mike

#245530 - 02/26/09 03:12 AM Re: Piano with tonal colour for classical music  
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 109
Mike088 Offline
Full Member
Mike088  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 109
New Westminster, Canada
And thank you Rank Piano Amateur for your perspective on this issue. Good points. I'll have to try as many pianos as I can to guide my judgement on this important issue.
Mike

#245531 - 02/26/09 09:07 AM Re: Piano with tonal colour for classical music  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
apple* Offline
apple*  Offline


Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
Kansas
better check out the Charles Walters.. they are durable and have the BEST, most grandlike action i've encountered in that price range. they seem kind of short, but the bass is awesome... and the balance is superb. they awesome pianos. I also am very impressed with the largest Baldwin upright.(6000?).


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)
#1153940 - 02/27/09 01:58 PM Re: Piano with tonal colour for classical music [Re: apple*]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,880
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,880
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Within your price range you probably won't be able to find pianos, new or used, that have good tonal color.

You are likely best off with a grey market Yamaha or Kawai.


Last edited by Steve Cohen; 02/27/09 01:59 PM.

Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
#1153979 - 02/27/09 02:48 PM Re: Piano with tonal colour for classical music [Re: Steve Cohen]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 285
NoctuGranes Offline
Full Member
NoctuGranes  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 285
Northeast USA
15-20yr old Baldwin 6000 uprights are capable of being voiced to have good tonal color. I just sold one (private sale) in that price range. There should be some around still in very good shape. Yes, I sold it to buy something with FANTASTIC tonal color but it cost an order of magnitude more. I still think the 6000 was a very nice piano, and tonal color is my "thing".

...this is why I tire of Yamaha even though they feel good and are fun to play, and don't care for Kawai much at all. But I like dark music, not Bach/Mozart, so I'm not bashing, just giving you info on my perspective.

On a 6000, make sure the action is fast enough for you. I played Gershwin and Rachmaninov on mine but the action is not gonna match a Yamaha.


-Nocty
Not in the piano business.
1906 Baldwin C rebuilt 2008

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Possible Savings on an ETD App
by DavidWB. 11/18/17 10:16 PM
Pianoteq 6 Recording Function Glitch
by newbert. 11/18/17 04:10 PM
collapsing pinky
by Muove. 11/18/17 02:22 PM
DP-10X built in speakers for Pianoteq?
by Tim1981. 11/18/17 12:16 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,831
Posts2,672,841
Members89,158
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0