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I'm not sure where this question belongs. I know that in Britain there are quavers while in other parts of the English world there are quarter notes. How is it for "tone" and "step"? In discussing intervals, my Canadian theory refers to "tone and semitone". I like using "whole tone" just to be double sure. Recently I was told that this is not the standard term, and that "whole step" and "half step" are correct.
I thought that "step" referred to the physical distance that your fingers travel on instruments such as piano and string instruments, and "tone, semitone" referred to the distance in sound. Actually I never thought about it.
Is it "step" in the U.S. and "tone" in Canada and maybe Britain? In an international community the American terms seem to prevail - I'd like to get it right.

The terminology I've always used is whole- and half-step. The only time I used "whole-tone" is when I'm describing the scale consisting of only whole-steps (e.g. c-d-e-f#-g#-a#)

The English (and Australian) terminology is TONE and SEMITONE for whole and half step. We would use the term WHOLE TONE when talking about the whole-tone scale, for example because to say the scale has six tones might be misunderstood.

What is "standard" depends on where you are. I would consider both to be "correct".

If I could dare to suggest why the American terms seem to prevail in an international forum - I think it's because we quaver and semitone people are more aware of the American system than the Americans are with ours. Perhaps because of all the beginner piano books which have the American system.

Thank you 8ude and Currawong.

8ude, I had not thought of the "whole tone scale" before. "Half step scale" would sound odd. I did see "half step / whole step scale" in guitar forums, which I think is another name for the octatonic scale. (Doesn't it also have another name? The oct. is the one that has continual minor thirds, and so continual diminished sevenths, I think.)

Currawong - thinking - it's an international forum based in the U.S. but also, we have to be using some kind of terminology and maybe remain consistent so we can understand each other. I've seen both 'quaver' and 'quarter note' used in PW.

I did some googling. Wikki suggests that it is actualy a controversial question. They say that possibly "step" is American, and "tone" belongs to the other countries, but they're not sure.
Wikki article
Bottom footnotes:
Semitone, half step, half tone, halftone, and half-tone are all variously used in sources. Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein, and others use "half tone". One source says that step is "chiefly US",and that half-tone is "chiefly N. Amer."

The theory book used by the RCM (Canadian) uses the term "tone, semitone", but the practical book for violin refers to "step, half step".

For this reason, I thought that "tone, semitone" referred to the interval as sound, and "step" referred to the distance the fingers take on some instruments such as piano and violin.

Oh yes, me too. In fact, when I'm talking about quavers and crotchets for example, I'll usually put "eighth notes and quarter notes" in brackets, just to be sure. I personally don't like the quarter note type terminology and it goes against the grain to use it, like spelling favourite as "favorite" but I'm ok with using both, just for clarity. And also so that people know that there are two systems which are both "correct".

By the way, I'd known about the half-note, quarter-note terminology for ever, but it's only fairly recently I've realised that Americans don't usually use the terms tone/semitone. I was rather surprised. I'd heard the terms "half-step" etc, but I actually thought it was just a simplified way of describing semitones, perhaps for young piano students.

I tend to always type "bar"(English) instead of "measure"(US) on the forums because, well, it's less typing, isn't it .

Here's a couple of references for terms:

http://www.dolmetsch.com/introduction.htm

http://ninagilbert.googlepages.com/British.html

I'm not sure how accurate some portions of the latter are, especially the section on cadences.

Rich

Interesting - I've never heard that referred to as a "half-step/whole-step" scale, the only term I'm familiar with for that one is octatonic.

Bar and measure seem to be completely interchangeable in the US, with the exception that no-one here, or hopefully anywhere, would ever describe a particular type of music as a "12-measure blues."

yd

You mean that you are a fan of "hemidemisemiquaver?" Do you think that the words actually affect how one perceives the note?
Yesterday, for me.
Hey, that's another one I was wondering about. "Measure" sound so sophisticated, though.

What I'm wondering is whether there is any official "standard" of terminology belonging to countries.

DragonPianplayer, thanks for the links. Dolmetsch points out some important things - the difference between "note/tone" and the fact that "tone" can simply mean a sound. I prefer to write "whole tone" instead of just "tone".

Actually the one thing we don't see in the link is usage in Canada (or Australia). We seem to be British for tone/semitone, but American for quarter note etc.

In Canada, we have the additional handicap of being officially bilingual French/English. So you'll be in a choir where some people are accustomed to "do re mi" and the others "C D E".

I'm lifting this out of DragonPianoPlayer's second link:
My Canadian theory book uses both terms. Is it in order to span both countries? Or do we use both terms over here?

(This is getting interesting)

Do you really prefer hemidemisemiquaver to 64th?

Oops… Just saw that KS mentioned the same thing. (Eerie…)

To me this is like holding on to the US measurements and resisting metrics, which I find infinitely more practical. I mean using metrics!

For semitones or halfsteps, I have no preference. Both seem equally clear.

From Dolmetsch:

Tone/Whole-step, Semitone/Half-step
In Britain, "a tone" (in musical usage) is defined as an interval of a major second. Americans refer to this as a "whole-step".

A semitone is half a tone, the interval of a minor second, one-twelfth of an octave, the smallest interval between two notes on a piano. Americans call this a "half-step".

A major scale consists of the intervals TTSTTTS where T=tone and S=semitone.

PLEASE NOTE THIS AS WRITTEN ABOVE (A major scale consists of the intervals TTSTTTS where T=tone and S=semitone) IS IN ERROR (BP)because the diagramming of 2 tetrachords requires 8 tones being accounted for. (Please read the "What are missing in lessons" topic where I made my last response about what the error was as I see it.)

I am sying this is NOT correct: A major scale consists of the intervals TTSTTTS where T=tone and S=semitone.

It would be nice if we could see and verify what the problem is and maybe even fix it. Is my concern for how this is being inaccurately said being understood?

TTSTTTS not correct? Or correct? I can't work out from your post which you are saying.

8 notes ARE being accounted for. T and S refer to the distances between the notes. The diagram TTSTTTS really means:
1-T-2-T-3-S-4-T-5-T-6-T-7-S-8, where the numbers are the notes themselves, and the T or S the distance between them.
There are certainly 8 notes there!

Yes I do - though I don't find I have much occasion to actually say hemidemisemiquaver . I suppose it boils down to what you learnt first. I think quarter notes work well when you're explaining time signatures, so you know what that bottom number means, but I have seen some confusion about odd things like "three-quarter time" being somehow not a "whole" bar . Truly.

I'm with you on the metrics. We've had metrics here for 35 years.

Question to all:

Is there any way to imagine that "T" is not two notes, meaning moving a whole tone or whole step or two keys (both colors) from a starting place?

TTSTTTS

OR

WWHWWWH means to me:

X-2-2-1-2-2-2-1(octave of X)

X is just the starting point…

Really?

OK, stupid question! I say "three quarter" time.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to say:

A dotted 16th is a 16th plus a 32nd.

A dotted semiquaver is a semiquaver plus a semidemiquaver.

Is there even a slight hesitation when you say to a student:

Four crotchets equal a semibreve. That doesn't seem as mathematically precise as "four quarters equals a whole", which is mathematical. I wonder how we (US) inherited the German system, which does the same thing?
Trust me when I tell you that few people here could tell you how hot it is when it is 25C, or how tall you are if you are 2 meters tall.

That is an interesting question, Gary. I must say that in my mind's ear a "tone" is a whole thing, and a "semitone" is a partial thing. But if I had started on piano instead of voice I would probably seen it as two semitones and one semitone. I think it has to do with the solfege, which was my first introduction to music. The solid steps of a ladder with two uneven rungs, but most of the rungs were a whole tone apart. So mentally for me a semitone is like a whole tone that has been split in two.

I think that the semitone might be a more accurate unit to think in. ??

I THINK that I started out with the concept of a whole step or tone as being more or less that default, with BC and EF being the exceptions. But we get to chromatic scales and movement so quickly at the piano. I describe a minor third as three half steps, but a major third as two whole steps, not four half steps. So I probably flip from system to system, according to what is most handy at the moment.