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#1151771 - 04/23/06 04:05 PM Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,257
Jeanne W Offline
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Jeanne W  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,257
New England
I've downloaded the free versions of Finale and Sibelius and am comparing the two.

Finale: I've noticed the sounds generated in Finale always malfunction after a certain amt of time. It's like Finale has a built in timer to disable the sounds. Anyone here experienced this.

Sibelius: I've only tried using it 2 or 3 times now and each session it's closed up on me. I'm wondering if this would be something to beware of with the purchased version?

[Edit: Hey, I somehow posted this before finishing, will continue my initial post below...]


Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
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#1151772 - 04/23/06 04:19 PM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Jan 2004
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Jeanne W Offline
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Jeanne W  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,257
New England
Observation (correct me if I'm wrong!):

Both software pkgs seem to be very similar in ease of use, so far anyway, from my very very limited use of it. There are obviously differences, one of them....

In Sibelius, you have to navigate through the toolbar to notate triplets? Sheesh! Finale has it right on the visible notepad. Am I missing something?

Questions:

1. Can you indicate fingering/applicatura for piano in Sibelius or Finale? I don't see it anywhere.

2. How do you change time/key signature in Sibelius in the middle of a piece of music? I found this in Finale, but not Sibelius.

3. Can you add/delete instruments if you change your mind after you've already set up your music score? I don't see this in either software.

4. Can you isolate one instrument of many during playback. For instance, you've got a whole orchestral score, but you just want to listen to one of the violins.

5. Does anyone here have an opinion as to the quality of Garritan Personal Orchestra vs. Kontact Gold?

6. I don't have a MIDI set up yet, but one of the big questions that occurs to me is, if you're recording via MIDI and make a mistake and hesitate, wouldn't this push music into the wrong bar, i.e. it could throw what should be the last note in a bar of music into the next bar? So my question is, can you delete the note you played in error and then drag all of the succeeding notes into previous bar?

Any help will be appreciated. Would love to hear from someone who is familiar with both notation software pkgs.

Jeanne W


Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000
#1151773 - 04/24/06 12:33 AM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
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OperaTenor Offline
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OperaTenor  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Sandy Eggo, California
Hi Jeanne,

I have Finale 2005, and a couple of my friends have Sibelius(one recently switched from Finale to Sibelius).

1. Finger denotation can be found in the Articualtion Tool in Finale.

3. It appears you can at least add insturments to extant score, and I'm pretty sure you can delete them. In your trial version, do you have tutorials? If so, you should find a tutorial called "Working with Scores"(in mine it's #5). That should have the answers you're looking for.

4. It looks as though you use the "Extract Parts" function to isolate part(s) for playback.

6. Essentially, yes. However the mistake is recorded, you can go back and fix it with "Simple Edit".

My friends hwo have Sibelius love it. I love Finale 2005(I wasn't happy with 2003). I've heard people who are more analytical tend to favor Finale, but I don't know if that's just an old wive's tale.

I hope that helped.


Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#1151774 - 04/24/06 02:57 AM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 103
James McFadyen Offline
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James McFadyen  Offline
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Posts: 103
Manchester UK
Hi there,
I'm a Sibelius user so can help with that side of things.... as for Finale, I've never used it. I know lots of people who have used it and swapped to Sibelius though. Some people like it, others don't, it's pure perference.

As for answering your questions.... (all answers for Sib- top of my head answers and some of the shortcuts MAY vary dependant on what version of Sib you have...)
1) Yes. But you have to put in the text and put it in place. Right click -> Text -> Small Text... select where you want it roughly, type, click or push ESC and then move (best to highlight it and use arrow keys) into place.

2) Yes of course! Press T, select Time sig and click the bar you want.... same with Keys, press K and select the key you want and then click the bar you want it in.

3) Yes. Two ways.... a) Keep clicking on a bar in the line of the instrument that you want removed until it's all highlighted and push "delete".... OR b) go back into Instrument Properties (push 'I', I think), select the instrument you want removed and push "remove"

4) Yes. Click on a bar in the part you want played back and push "P".

5) No.... but I don't like Kontact player... I have a pretty good soundcard which does me personally, and then have Cubase with hundreds of samples for making up better recordings later.


Hope this helps... anything else just PM and ask....

For notation, we use Lilypond. It's the best.

Cheers,
Naomi McFadyen
Proprietor NaomiMusic Publishing
Artistic Director etc Devilish Publishing


James McFadyen
Black & White Editions (c/o Devilish Publishing)
NEW PIANO MUSIC DEALS - http://www.blackandwhiteeditions.com/
#1151775 - 04/24/06 03:03 AM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 103
James McFadyen Offline
Full Member
James McFadyen  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 103
Manchester UK
Quote
Sibelius: I've only tried using it 2 or 3 times now and each session it's closed up on me. I'm wondering if this would be something to beware of with the purchased version?
No, never had that problem with the full version... you don't pay out 500 quid or whatever for programs to do *that*.

Quote
In Sibelius, you have to navigate through the toolbar to notate triplets? Sheesh!
No you don't actually..... if you want a triplet, say, quaver triplets... put in the first quaver and push CRTL 3 (if it's not CRTL it's SHIFT or ALT.... I'm doing this from the top of my head, lol) and it'll make it a triplet.... select note push "R" twice and that's ya triplet beat done.... (I know loads of sib shortcuts incidentally, they're worth learning wink )

Cheers,
Naomi McFadyen
etc etc etc


James McFadyen
Black & White Editions (c/o Devilish Publishing)
NEW PIANO MUSIC DEALS - http://www.blackandwhiteeditions.com/
#1151776 - 04/24/06 09:28 AM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 558
EP Offline
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EP  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 558
Rocky Mountains, USA
Quote
I love Finale 2005(I wasn't happy with 2003)
OperaTenor,
I'm curious - I haven't updated my Finale for a couple of years (I'm using 2004).
Can you give me any particulars about what you like with 2005 that is different than 2003?
Thanks.

#1151777 - 04/24/06 02:19 PM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 36
Adam H Offline
Full Member
Adam H  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 36
Hull, Uk
1. Can you indicate fingering/applicatura for piano in Sibelius or Finale? I don't see it anywhere.

1) Yes. But you have to put in the text and put it in place. Right click -> Text -> Small Text... select where you want it roughly, type, click or push ESC and then move (best to highlight it and use arrow keys) into place.

1: Easier to use Text>Fingering and click on the note. Once you've entered the finger number, presssing space automatically advances to the next note, much faster. (keep pressing space to advance without adding numbers)

2: ...and use T for time signature.

3: No need to delete music from stave first, just press I. You can delete staves (it will ask for confirmation if there is music in that part), add new instruments, and move them up and down within the score (this is for Sib. 3 onwards)


If you need to know more about Sibelius do bellow - I've been using Sibelius for about 13 years...

#1151778 - 04/26/06 07:43 PM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Jan 2004
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Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Jeanne W  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,257
New England
Thanks for all of the info, everyone. I will try out what you have said. Regarding the sounds that come with Sibelius and Finale, it seems to me in some discussions in other posts here, that people have more or less said the sounds that come with the software is not as good as the sounds that come in their keyboards. I'm surprised by that. Do any of you agree with that? Naomi, seems you're saying this in your post here?

Another thing I'm not clear on... It seems the notation software does a lot of the same things a sequencer does. A sequencer, allows you to later on, manipulate the music, correct notes, change tempo, etc. But the notation software available, for example, Sibelius and Finale, allows you to do the same thing. So why would you want notation software AND a sequencer? What does a sequencer allow you to do that the notation software doesn't?

Jeanne W


Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000
#1151779 - 04/27/06 01:42 AM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,557
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,557
Sandy Eggo, California
Quote
Originally posted by EP:
Quote
I love Finale 2005(I wasn't happy with 2003)
OperaTenor,
I'm curious - I haven't updated my Finale for a couple of years (I'm using 2004).
Can you give me any particulars about what you like with 2005 that is different than 2003?
Thanks.
Hi EP,

Sorry for the tardy reply to this.

Compared to 2005, I found 2003 to be generally counter-intuitive - functions weren't laid out as logically and handily. Kind of a low-grade, overall pervasive difference. From what I've heard froma friend, 2004 wasn'tt all that different from 2003, but there is a significant difference when it comes to 2005.

I hope that was help and not confusion....


Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#1151780 - 04/27/06 10:11 AM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 36
Adam H Offline
Full Member
Adam H  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 36
Hull, Uk
Quote
------
So why would you want notation software AND a sequencer?
-------

A sequencer is primarily for creating a performance, whereas notation software is primarily geared up to create a clear score.

Analogy: Word and Excel can both do chunks of text and tables of numbers, but if you've got a lot of text you'd use Word, but if numbers are the issue then use Excel.

So if the performance is more importannt than the score, use a sequencer, you have more control over phrasing, dynamics and other performance aspects. However if you need a clear score for musicians to perform from the go for a notation package.

Of course if you need to do both jobs then it's better to have both packages. I use Cubase SX 2 for sequencing, Sibelius 4 for notation and Soundforge 8 for audio editing.

#1151781 - 04/29/06 07:56 PM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,257
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Jeanne W  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,257
New England
Thanks, Adam. That's a very clear explanation.

Jeanne W


Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000
#1151782 - 05/02/06 05:30 PM Re: Finale / Sibelius Snafus, Observations & Questions  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 103
James McFadyen Offline
Full Member
James McFadyen  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 103
Manchester UK
Quote
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
in some discussions in other posts here, that people have more or less said the sounds that come with the software is not as good as the sounds that come in their keyboards. I'm surprised by that. Do any of you agree with that? Naomi, seems you're saying this in your post here?
Well, the "thing" (sorry, I dont think much of it at all) with Sib isn't great..... I use Sib for brass band comp and it has naff cornet sounds (brass is hard to smaple afterall) and horns are trombones sounds.... much prefer my soundcard for the sounds.... best thing bout Kontact player is the percussion.... Much prefer my soundcard for the overall interpretation.

If you want excellent midi recordings of your works, Devilish Publishing offer a VirtualScore service. Visit http://www.myalias.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/virtualscore for more details.

Naomi McFadyen...


James McFadyen
Black & White Editions (c/o Devilish Publishing)
NEW PIANO MUSIC DEALS - http://www.blackandwhiteeditions.com/

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