Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
151 registered members (Aloyah, amad23, Albunea, AndyP, alexcawley, accordeur, 36 invisible), 1,872 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#1141269 - 02/22/08 10:51 AM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 823
Riddler Offline
500 Post Club Member
Riddler  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 823
Florida
Summary so far:

His ideas were often brilliant.

His manner was often offensive.

Suggestion: Supporters should put together a compilation of his best posts, with the offensive parts edited out.

This would prove your point.

It would also provide a useful guide to his school of thought, thereby salvaging something worthwhile out of this unfortunate series of events.

I'm not sure what form this would take.

Ed


http://edsjazzpianopage.blogspot.com/

My fingers are slow, but easily keep pace with my thoughts.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1141270 - 02/22/08 10:52 AM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 291
btcomm Offline
Full Member
btcomm  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 291
California

#1141271 - 02/22/08 11:58 AM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
J. Mark Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J. Mark  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
Quote
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
... Is this what it means to be a New Yorker? ...
Absolutely not. The allusion to his style being due to where he lives was a sorry attempt at apologism for his boorish behavior. As someone who has lived in NY for over 27 years (15 of them in Manhattan and 3 of them in Brooklyn), I can tell you, this guy is *not* representative of New Yorkers. The New York "style" of being a bit brusque can put off people who are not from the area, but once you understand it, you realize it is tempered with a measure of (often self-deprecating) humor. In truth, New Yorkers are the friendliest people on earth (with the possible exception of the good Irish smile ).

Mark

#1141272 - 02/22/08 12:04 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 379
pastafarian Offline
Full Member
pastafarian  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 379
Canada
Riddler's idea is a good one, though I , for one, am probably too much of a beginner to profit fom most of his more insightful comments, particualrly in the area of jazz harmony.

I have read his threads and find nothing offensive in them, but then my ego is not at stake when someone claims to have played Chopin's Etudes as a child, because I can't play any of them and so have no pretensions of pianistic competence. I read it and think: "Wow, good for him(her).I suppose that's the level of techinical skill the elite players need."
And then "Of course this is the internet, so the claim might be nonsense..." and have lost nothing. I watched his video playing Tristano and thought: "Yeah, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.", whereas the sceptics have offered nothing but talk, which is cheap.

As far as his disparaging comments about New Age music goes: meh, I don't like it either, whether it's complex or not.
I loathe Sorabji and love twelve-bar, three-chord blues: pile on the contempt, I won't take it personally and it won't make me reach for a Stravinsky CD over Muddy Waters.


I think Piano Dad's post illustrates the core subtext: people whose ego is tied up in their aesthetic judgements. Grow up.

I don't see Disciple as in the wrong here at all. He backed up his assertions with reasons, and as far as I saw he never attacked a poster personally except in self-defence and if he criticized someone's favourite type of music or composer, it was on grounds of musical sophistication, which adults know is independent of aesthetic value, which is subjective. Period.

My reading of this whole thing is that a few people whose egos are tied up in being the "big experts on the block", could not handle competition from an idiosyncratic outsider who bucked conventional wisdom and, perhaps indelicately, made hamburger of a few sacred cows.


Without music life would be a mistake
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
#1141273 - 02/22/08 12:25 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 802
Innominato Offline
500 Post Club Member
Innominato  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 802
London
On the banning: it would be nice if some moderator would give "official" information about this.

Personally I am sure of having read from him that he would not write on this forum anymore, which he subsequently did; as a result, unless the contrary is said from the moderators I will assume that he went out of his own volition and can come back (as I hope he will do) anytime he wants.

On the quarrel himself, I would like to put my two cents again.

I can be Daniel Barenboim writing under a nickname, but if I say that I can do this and that and someone says to me "well, show us", I might want to do it or not, but really there's no reason why I should react so violently as he did.

It's the internet, people.
No one can see someone else in the face or hear him playing unless he wants. The request to hear what one is claiming of being able of is perfectly legitimate, as it is legitimate the answer "sorry, I do not think I have to demonstrate anything, you believe me or you don't". End of the story and have a nice day.

Disciple is, in my eyes, a very competent pianist, but should not have taken it as a personal offense that someone questioned the ability of a person claimed via the internet asking for the recording.

It would be different if I were, say, Daniel Barenboim and someone would write in the board "I heard you yesterday and you were crap": one has heard and spoken an offensive opinion.

But to say "I believe when I see it" should be nothing offensive, even Thomas made it up to Sainthood and no damage done...


"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

Kemble Conservatoire 335025 Walnut Satin
#1141274 - 02/22/08 01:08 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member
jazzwee  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
So. California
Innominato, it is a certainty that Disciple was banned. It was claimed by Dnephi that he was being harrassed by personal PM's and that could have been the trigger or he could have requested the banning.

The PM, as I understand it, was just a repeat of what was posted on the thread (i.e. come to Queens re: the wager).

So that this discussion is not one sided, I will post a message from Disciple:

Quote

Since he's the one that posted "I'll bet you my car that you can't play a
Chopin Etude of my choice", I don't see that as a threat in any way. Now, he's
posting on the forum that "I threatened him".

This wasn't about my being a primadonna. Someone posted about Liszt and
Chopin etudes and I answered "Being that I play all of these along with the
Godowski Variations...." and I started to give some pianistic insight into their
performance. Suddenly, DNephi and his pals jumped on me, "You can't play any of
these... we'll bet our cars that you can't play any of them".

Now this wasn't the first time DNephi had done this. On Pianostreet, he kept
claiming over and over that any of my sound files and videos were "sped up".
Fake! That if they were real, I was the greatest living pianist and nobody is
that good.

Frankly, the video didn't even show what I can do technically. That's not
what I was trying to do. I was making music not absloute virtuosity. I always
play well within the technical range of my ability and have plenty of headroom.
Even in the opening notes of my video.

So of course, I became miffed at people telling me what I couldn't play and
willing to wager over it. I accepted all wagers and they didn't respond of
course. I told them for their cars, I'd play all the etudes for them, not just one
of their choice. heck, I'll play them backwards if they want me to if they
want to pay the first year's insurance for me on their cars after I win them.

Anyway, it's out of my hands. Pianoworld banned me.


Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#1141275 - 02/22/08 01:20 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Quote
Suddenly, DNephi and his pals jumped on me, "You can't play any of
these... we'll bet our cars that you can't play any of them".
Well, that can't have been me. I don't even own a car!


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1141276 - 02/22/08 01:49 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,751
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member
jazzyprof  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,751
Ann Arbor, MI
Quote
Originally posted by jazzwee:

So that this discussion is not one sided, I will post a message from Disciple:

Quote


Anyway, it's out of my hands. Pianoworld banned me.
Why would Pianoworld ban Disciple? That would be grossly unfair. He has not violated any Pianoworld rules as far as I can tell. Is there something we don't know?


"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
#1141277 - 02/22/08 02:16 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,792
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Piano*Dad  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,792
Williamsburg, VA
This may sound silly, but I don't understand the line, "Anyway, it's out of my hands. Pianoworld banned me."

If Piano World had banned him, how could he be on Piano World saying that Pianoworld had banned him?

Was that a PM? or did he really mean PianoStreet, and Pianoworld came out as a typo.

#1141278 - 02/22/08 02:19 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member
jazzwee  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
So. California
Dad, this is from a private email he sent me AFTER he was banned. He is reading this thread but can't respond.


Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#1141279 - 02/22/08 02:22 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Quote
Originally posted by jazzwee:
He is reading this thread but can't respond.
Yikes! This is just too freaky. I'm outta here.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1141280 - 02/22/08 02:22 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member
jazzwee  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
So. California
Now if the arguments occurred on this forum, there probably won't be any banning since there's no active moderator laugh


Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#1141281 - 02/22/08 02:24 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member
jazzwee  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
So. California
Quote
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
Quote
Originally posted by jazzwee:
[b] Dad, this is from a private email he sent me AFTER he was banned. He is reading this thread but can't respond.
Yikes! This is just too freaky. I'm outta here. [/b]
He!he! You make it sound like there's a ghost out there laugh Klutz, just remember that everything you're writing about technique may still be read a decade from now...


Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#1141282 - 02/22/08 02:26 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 802
Innominato Offline
500 Post Club Member
Innominato  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 802
London
Thank you Jazzwee, but I feel confirmed in my opinion that the main issue was, from the side of Disciple, his proficiency being put into question. Which might be annoying, but again hey, it's the internet....

As far as the betting is concerned, I frankly do not recollect anyone betting his car first against Disciple, whilst I do recollect Disciple offering to bet his own car (or a sizeable amount of money) inviting his opponent to visit home in Queens.

Of course, one can edit messages without this leaving traces in his posting so it might well be that the betting initiative started from disciple's opponents; but still this is what I remember reading and whoever has started with the bet has certainly raised the level of the confrontation beyond the usual disagreement and into a highly emotional terrain.

I also do not think (and this is why I would have liked an intervention from the moderators) that disciple would or should have been banned for what he has publicly written in the discussion; if this was the case was, I beg to differ from the moderator's opinion and allow myself to publicly ask for the readmission of Disciple in this forum.

Anyway the expression "asked to be banned" seems a bit far fetched to me, being to me the same as "decided to leave without anyone forcing him to do so".

---------------------------------------------

My humble suggesion at this point is that Disciple speaks privately with the moderators - if he is in fact banned as opposed to "self-banned" - with a view of coming back to the forum, which I am sure would profit from his presence and his contribution.


"The man that hath no music in himself / Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds / Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils." (W.Shakespeare)

Kemble Conservatoire 335025 Walnut Satin
#1141283 - 02/22/08 02:27 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
J. Mark Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J. Mark  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
Nonsense, guys. If he was banned, the PM and Profile functions would disappear from his old posts, wouldn't they? I'm quite confident he has not been banned. It's just a lot of phony childish drama.

#1141284 - 02/22/08 02:40 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,137
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012
Monica K.  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,137
Lexington, Kentucky
I dunno, J. Mark; if you search the community directory for either "Disciple" OR "virtuosic1" (his former login name), his profile doesn't come up. When I search for the name of another prominent former PW member who was banned, it also does not come up. I also don't see any reason why jazzwee would make up story about the email he got from Disciple.

I respected the *content* of what Disciple said, even when I disagreed with it, but I thought he was unnecessarily rude to forum members.


Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#1141285 - 02/22/08 02:43 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member
jazzwee  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,203
So. California
In answer to J. Mark, this is his words from another past email. BTW this email exchange happened a couple of days ago so I don't know if he's actively reading this thread or not anymore.

This is the last email exchange we've had and I have no further words from him on this subject. As you can see he encouraged me to post his words.

Quote

Also, maybe you can somehow pass along that I didn't up and decide not to
post anymore. There's alot of people with the erroneous misconception that I left
like a prima donna and took my "toys" with me. I backed away for the evening,
but when I went to post the next day, my account was BANNED. I had to log out
to read the forum. I no longer have posting priviledges on that forum! I'd be
right there if the management didn't decide that they didn't want me.


Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#1141286 - 02/22/08 02:49 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 905
Danny Niklas Offline
500 Post Club Member
Danny Niklas  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 905
Switzerland
He is not been banned. (his account is still working and there's no sign of banning)
On pianostreet Disciple said that he were compelled to ask the moderators to ban him and to delete all his old messages. When all his messages disappeared he said "you see what you made me done?!"

Disciple don't stand criticism (constructive or not) and as soon as it occurs he run away and delete history of his passage. But I wouldn't blame others for this. The post where I and other members have quarrels are all there for anyone to read and I have never asked their removal.

Quote
As far as his disparaging comments about New Age music goes: meh, I don't like it either, whether it's complex or not.


That YOU don't like it is NOT a good reason to defend those who attack it, attack those who like it and gets offensive and aggressive if you disagree. What if something YOU like were attacked? What if you said "wait a moment I don't agree" and that triggered a seried of obnoxious posts on how ignorant you are, how you wouldn't know anyway anyway because you can't play this or that and how you just disagree for the sake of it?

#1141287 - 02/22/08 02:54 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
J. Mark Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J. Mark  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
Monica -- that was not the case a couple of days ago when I checked. Who knows. Frankly, who cares? I think I'll return to more pleasant topics.... smile

#1141288 - 02/22/08 03:01 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,792
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Piano*Dad  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,792
Williamsburg, VA
that would be the path of wisdom for all of us.

#1141289 - 02/22/08 03:09 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member
Mr_Kitty  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 667
Toronto
it IS just alot of phony childish drama. I couldn't agree with you more, J. Mark.
The reason I'M concerned is because PW may have lost an incredibly valuable member with much to share with the community.
I'm not looking to blame, attack, or defend anyone. I just hope the situation can be remedied, that's all.

#1141290 - 02/22/08 04:12 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,815
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member
rintincop  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,815
Quote
Originally posted by pastafarian:
Riddler's idea is a good one, though I , for one, am probably too much of a beginner to profit fom most of his more insightful comments, particualrly in the area of jazz harmony.

I have read his threads and find nothing offensive in them, but then my ego is not at stake when someone claims to have played Chopin's Etudes as a child, because I can't play any of them and so have no pretensions of pianistic competence. I read it and think: "Wow, good for him(her).I suppose that's the level of techinical skill the elite players need."
And then "Of course this is the internet, so the claim might be nonsense..." and have lost nothing. I watched his video playing Tristano and thought: "Yeah, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.", whereas the sceptics have offered nothing but talk, which is cheap.

As far as his disparaging comments about New Age music goes: meh, I don't like it either, whether it's complex or not.
I loathe Sorabji and love twelve-bar, three-chord blues: pile on the contempt, I won't take it personally and it won't make me reach for a Stravinsky CD over Muddy Waters.


I think Piano Dad's post illustrates the core subtext: people whose ego is tied up in their aesthetic judgements. Grow up.

I don't see Disciple as in the wrong here at all. He backed up his assertions with reasons, and as far as I saw he never attacked a poster personally except in self-defence and if he criticized someone's favourite type of music or composer, it was on grounds of musical sophistication, which adults know is independent of aesthetic value, which is subjective. Period.

My reading of this whole thing is that a few people whose egos are tied up in being the "big experts on the block", could not handle competition from an idiosyncratic outsider who bucked conventional wisdom and, perhaps indelicately, made hamburger of a few sacred cows.
That's exactly right.


Casio PX-360 digital piano, Mojo 61 digital organ, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.
#1141291 - 02/22/08 05:08 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 193
AD Offline
Full Member
AD  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 193
Agreed.


-----------
Oh, life is a glorious cycle of song,
A medley of extemporanea;
And love is a thing that can never go wrong,
And I am Marie of Romania.
#1141292 - 02/22/08 05:29 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,789
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
bitWrangler  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,789
Central TX
Quote
Originally posted by Innominato:
As far as the betting is concerned, I frankly do not recollect anyone betting his car first against Disciple, whilst I do recollect Disciple offering to bet his own car (or a sizeable amount of money) inviting his opponent to visit home in Queens.
Actually btb first makes the comment. However, I don't think the intention was to seriously propose a wager, more to emphasize the magnitude in which btb felt that Disciple was overstating his claims.

Personally I would have loved it if someone would have taken him up on his offer. Actually, not necessarily the actual bet, but if someone could have offered to come over and record the challenge. If Disciple was speaking the truth, he would then have video evidence and could hopefully then simple point anyone to the video and ignore them.

#1141293 - 02/22/08 05:35 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 905
Danny Niklas Offline
500 Post Club Member
Danny Niklas  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 905
Switzerland
Quote
Originally posted by bitWrangler:
[QUOTE] Personally I would have loved it if someone would have taken him up on his offer.
Someone did on piano street (he made the identical offer) but I don't think anything occurred eventually.

#1141294 - 02/22/08 05:55 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 838
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member
Jazz+  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 838
Banned
More hearsay in an attempt to smear somebody who is gone. And "btb" the chappie started all that betting nonsense more than once.


Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.
#1141295 - 02/22/08 07:19 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,249
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Jeanne W  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,249
New England
Quote
Originally posted by pastafarian:
....As far as his disparaging comments about New Age music goes: meh, I don't like it either, whether it's complex or not.
I loathe Sorabji and love twelve-bar, three-chord blues: pile on the contempt, I won't take it personally and it won't make me reach for a Stravinsky CD over Muddy Waters.....


Hi, pastofarian.

I don't have a problem with people saying they don't like something. For instance, your comment that you "loathe Sorabji.." - I think that's fine. You are clearly stating your opinion. We're all entitled to that. If someone wants to say they "loathe" some musician/composer I like, well their entitled, that's their opinion.

To me there's a world of difference between how you expressed your opinion and how Virtuosic1 expressed his.

Virtuosic1 went on to demean and belittle. That's what I take exception to.

People who TRASH other people's work, etc., that's what I have a problem with.

Jeanne W


Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000
#1141296 - 02/22/08 08:55 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 379
pastafarian Offline
Full Member
pastafarian  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 379
Canada
Quote
That YOU don't like it is NOT a good reason to defend those who attack it, attack those who like it and gets offensive and aggressive if you disagree. What if something YOU like were attacked? What if you said "wait a moment I don't agree" and that triggered a seried of obnoxious posts on how ignorant you are, how you wouldn't know anyway anyway because you can't play this or that and how you just disagree for the sake of it?
Quote
I don't have a problem with people saying they don't like something. For instance, your comment that you "loathe Sorabji.." - I think that's fine. You are clearly stating your opinion. We're all entitled to that. If someone wants to say they "loathe" some musician/composer I like, well their entitled, that's their opinion.

To me there's a world of difference between how you expressed your opinion and how Virtuosic1 expressed his.

Virtuosic1 went on to demean and belittle. That's what I take exception to.

People who TRASH other people's work, etc., that's what I have a problem with.

Jeanne W
Hi Jeanne W, I guess I'll respond to these together. I agree with the first sentence. I didn't mean to suggest that. I was just being up front with my biases.

Had he said the same thing about the blues, I would have thought "Too bad for him that he can't appreciate the emotional depth in simple (simplistic?) musical forms." You could say the same for me wrt New Age and most of what ends up calssified as "Easy Listening" or "Adult Contemporary".

I thought he adopted a somewhat conciliatory tone with Monica K when it came to New Age music in general. I have to say I have heard nothing of the work of the composer he savaged, but most of what I have read of his musical analysis seemed considered and based on a fair bit of knowledge and experience. Doesn't make it The Truth, but makes it worth considering.

If you were offended by his manner, then you were offended. I suppose that makes him "offensive". I didn't find him that way but as you rightly point out, I never engaged him directly and he didn't insult me.

All that being said, the purpose of my defence of him is simple: I believe that he offered valuable lessons for those who shared his love of jazz and were able to profit from his insights. There is so much chaff on the internet particulalry on discussion forums, that any wheat should be treasured.

I have also learned that one needs a certain thickness of skin to post on forums. I try not to gratuitously offend people, but I have been on the receiving end of pretty insulting stuff. I reckon it goes with the anonymity of the medium.


Without music life would be a mistake
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
#1141297 - 02/22/08 10:56 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 135
Markeyz Offline
Full Member
Markeyz  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 135
Seattle
Certainly there was poor behavior by a number of parties in the thread in question but I am personally of the opinion that banning Disciple is a punishment that vastly exceeds his crimes. It is probable that the majority of people on the classical forum have not seen the numerous lengthy and insightful threads that Disciple has started here in the non-classical forum and as such are not aware of his valuable contributions. I for one am prepared to look past his less than polite behavior (he is not alone in this category) in order to benefit from his thoughts on music theory, piano technique, and whatever other relevant topics he chooses to share with us. If he has in fact been banned I would urge the powers that be to revoke this punishment. The forum may be more contentious as a result, but it will also be richer for his contributions.

Marc


Jazz pianist and teacher.

http://www.marchager.com
#1141298 - 02/22/08 11:04 PM Re: Disciple has been driven off  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,249
Jeanne W Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Jeanne W  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,249
New England
hi, pastafarian:

you are right - some people's skins ARE thicker than others. I don't quite understand how anyone could NOT be offended by some of the things Virtuosic1 said. I do, however, agree with those who believe Disciple was treated harshly by some members on the classical forum. Seems to me some members went off and lunged for Disciple's jugular without much provocation. But then, Disciple returned the favor, didn't he?

As others have noted, it seems there are some pretty big egos in the classical forum and it can get pretty brutal over there. Jealousy and insecurity sometimes seem to rule. On the other hand, someone who comes onto the forum with claims of superhuman pianistical feats, is setting themselves up as a target. People are going to start wondering and asking questions.

wavelength:

Earlier in this thread I asked:

"what amount of *stuff* are/should we be willing to put up with for the sake of talent, knowledge, expertise? At what point does it - a person, sorry to say - become just not worth it?"

You asked if "the *stuff*" I'm talking about is someone saying they don't like a particular piano player, and added that "…doing without that *stuff* would reduce the discussion to triviality."

No, I was not talking about differences of opinions or likes and dislikes. I agree with you that differences of opinion can make for lively, intelligent conversations. And I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me or like the same music as me or get upset when people say they don't like or even "loathe" something I like. I'm talking about how a person expresses himself. There is a difference between a respectful discussion and disrespectful and mean-spirited one.

Jeanne W


Music is about the heart and so should a piano be about the heart. - Pique

1920 Steinway A3
My Piano Delivery Thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8776.html#000000
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  sharpsandflats 

UK Members
Please check in
UK Members & Friends
Checking on our members and friends from the UK. Please Check In When Able
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Henle Editions
by sara elizabeth. 05/23/17 04:40 PM
Yamaha YDP S51 issues
by hast66. 05/23/17 03:32 PM
How do you know if a piece is at your level or not?
by marimorimo. 05/23/17 03:01 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics179,846
Posts2,629,159
Members87,859
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Report Problems With New Forums
Report Problems with New Forums Here!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0