Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner - Non Classical Did Jerome Kern borrow from Chopin?

Help me, I could be totally wrong about this; I don't have enough formal theory training (in fact I have zero theory training) to answer this.

I am learning the standard "The Way You Look Tonight" by Dorothy Fields and Jerome Kern. It's an evergreen used by jazzmen for decades. It also is just lovely played straight as a ballad. I am wondering if Jerome Kern may have borrowed the chord progression from Chopin's Prelude in E Minor Opus 28 No. 4.

The part of the bridge that has the lyrics "and that laugh that wrinkles your nose touches my foolish heart..." has the chord progression:

Gflat, Gflat dim, AFlat min 7th, Dflat 7th, Gfl maj 7th, E fl min, B flat &th sus, B flat 7th, E fl 6th..

Anyone think my suspicions are right?

No, if Kern took anything from Chopin, he stole it! He had no intention of giving it back.

I don't know about the "The Way You Look Tonight" similarity, but have you ever noticed the resemblance between Chopin's Op. 20 No. 4 and A.C. Jobim's "How Insensitive"?

It's no secret that Jobim was a huge Chopin fan! The names are even similar!

But he mainly enjoyed the Mazurkas...

How can any musician not feel inspired by such great music?

Hi All:

I am from the ABF...the huge "Devoted to Chopin" thread. But I noticed this topic and couldn't help but popping in to read it.

That song is one of my all time favorites, music and lyrics so perfect. And now, that you mention it, the bridge "and the smile..." does bear a resemblance to that soulful prelude.

Wish you all would visit our "site." We have some really great stuff about Chopin in all aspects of his life and music, close to 2,000 posts now.

Just the last few will give you some indication...

Visit here... and scroll down the page.

and yes, "how could anyone not feel inspired by such great music?"

Regards,
Kathleen

I'm wondering if the progression you stated might be easier to compare to the Chopin prelude if it were set out generically with Roman numerals instead of the key-specific chord names.

My knowledge of theory is really weak, so I'm not sure if that makes sense—or if I even used the word "generically" correctly in that context.

But I'm interested in the answer to your question!

Steven

You mean op 28, no 4, the same piece that this thread is comparing to The Way Look Tonight.

As for the comparison with The Way You Look Tonight, which part of the prelude are you talking about? Also, I think your second chord change is wrong (Gb dim). The melody is a Db. The second bar of the bridge is a G dim, or it can also be Bbm6, and the 10th bar, which is the bar you have written is also G dim. I substitute an A7 here though.

This is what I play on the bridge:
GbMaj7 Bbm6 Abm7 Db7 GbMaj7 Bbm7 Adim Abm7 Db7
GbMaj7 A7 DMaj7 Db7 GbMaj7 Ebm7 Fm7 Bb7

I know the DMaj7 looks strange, but I change the melody notes also:
Db Db Db Db Db E D B

There's nothing in that chord sequence that isn't typical of Broadway material (except maybe how exceptionally well the melody and harmony fit together, but then that's genius for you).

The bridge is in the bIII key of Eb, which is Gb - this was not uncommon for the day (going to bVI was another favourite, eg Dream a Little Dream). What you have is the I-VI-ii-V progession (see Heart and Soul) with a substitution or two (I think the second chord should be a Gdim, not Gb dim), which repeats three times, then on the fourth time it needs to get back to Eb, which it does by the suspension on the Bb.

So it's basic tin pan alley building blocks, just built rather well.

The two works are obviously close to pete's heart ... as with me ... but a harmonizing slide of heavy LH chords to match the words ...

"And that laugh that wrinkles your nose
Touches my foolish heart " ...

where Kern changes key (16 measures) ... is so differently structured, pitched, tempoed and balanced to that of the poetic single note outline of the Chopin Prelude 28-4 ... as to contain only the most distant and whimsical of similarities.

But what a charming song "The Way You Look Tonight" ... my first taste was perhaps Kern’s most popular hit "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" ... have since given up smoking ... someone said you live longer ... then “Who Wants to Live Forever?”