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Re: What Famous Pianists Had Perfect Pitch? #1135730
02/10/09 02:20 PM
02/10/09 02:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 403
Ireland
D
Devane Offline
Full Member
Devane  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 403
Ireland
Quote
Originally posted by delirium:

that's the whole misconception about that subject,
Yes, what it is, how it works, the factors into acquiring it, thinking that is music-teaching exclusive subject, the biological truth of brain development etc

Quote
Originally posted by delirium:

it's not something that you have to be taught but your ear has to be un-taught what it was doing.
Yes, but there is no evidence that this can be done.

This is David Lucas Burge's idea. His explanation of what AP is the best I have seen (on AP sites) but making your brain pay attention to something that the brain has chosen to cancel out years before is a bold claim.

Daniel Levitin
"I'm concerned about the statement in the article that "Independent research at Ohio State University and the University of Calgary demonstrated statistically significant improvements in absolute pitch skills among students using a perfect pitch method by David Lucas Burge. [10]. " This is straight out of Burge's training materials, but I've read those two reports carefully and they do NOT show that absolute pitch can be learned, as Burge has claimed. I know this is rash, but I'm going to take down that claim later this week unless there are any objections."


I don't see of any courses teaching me to hear close "echoes".The Brain cancels that out for us too.

This is the reality of it.
Professor Allan Snyder's way....

[Linked Image]
If you want to achieve AP, dull your left brain with a huge electromagnet for 15 mins
Considering these scientists are using a powerful electromagnet on your brain to achieve a temporary condition (around 2 hours) on your left brain comprised demonstrates what these AP courses must do.........the impossible.

The scientist's solution is a machine, something we know does something. Why did they not spend $100 on a AP course instead? To get a positive result maybe.

Quote
Originally posted by delirium:


Another misconception is that your ability to learn decrease with age, it's bulsh@t - with brain one rule counts: use it or lose it. Most people when older simply stop learning because of their busy life and that's the only reason.
This doesn't apply though. In this instance anybody over the age of 8 is an old fogey. The brain has changed.

Quote
Originally posted by delirium:

Regarding so called "studies" come on...I can bring up here hundreds of studies on hundreds subjects that were thought impossible yet some guys who don't like to be told what can be done or not simple did it.
Personal feelings about the evidence is irrelevant. These studies have not been challenged. Non-AP studies say the same thing about brain development and language development . If such a study disproving the hundreds of other neurological studies does indeed exist it would be peer-reviewed and major medical advances will happen. The whole world would like to see it. The fact that the brain goes through stages of development and has critical windows is fact. These are not some social science papers that have their results discussed on breakfast radio. This argument isn't a matter exclusive to AP courses. It is a neurological issue.

Articles from AP Sites and their interpretation about the scientific evidence is why I attack the BS they spew. I would say the same about alternative medicine, psychics etc. It's based on BS to make money.

I would group these AP courses with "unleash your psychic potential" books. :p An even bigger money making scheme.


Quote
Originally posted by delirium:

But it is almost impossible what you're saying:
"You can memorise all the pitches". That would be silly even to try...we're not robots.
You mis-understood me. I should have expanded. I meant "you can" if you want to go down that long, tiresome and pointless route. If I didn't have AP I would not spend hours upon hours doing this. Since AP's place in music isn't important. Working on RP or other ear training skills like sense of rhythm is what I would work on. AP's rareness is why people want it.

Memorising is what people do in most of these courses. There is evidence to support that memory for pitches can be quite accurate but you also have to remember that memory isn't perfect. Memorising a few anchor notes couldn't be that difficult. But all the notes! eek In fact this is a common misconception of what AP is...a memory of pitches. All this "the note is off by 2 hertz and it hurts my ears". :rolleyes: I have great experiment to disprove this apparent agony they claim to have. But that's another subject. I appear nasty enough already.

When you have AP all you need to do is memorise 12 chroma (the note name)if you want to name all the notes. Without memorising at all, not even know a note name you can test someone by playing a note and getting them to match another note with the same chroma. That is how I was tested. If a tuner set up a 8 note octave system instead of 12 you could still match octaves. It would throw off the memorisers.

Don't get me wrong.If someone goes to these great lengths and find it of use, good luck to them. But this isn't AP no matter who told them it is. So don't bother contacting Gottfried Schlaug, Daniel Leviten etc

Like the end of a previous post. Get that big fat "zero" up into interesting figures and then there is room for debate. And don't tell me, tell the scientists. You might get famous. wink

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Re: What Famous Pianists Had Perfect Pitch? #1135731
02/20/09 07:39 PM
02/20/09 07:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 24
Portugal
Wilson Frazão Offline
Full Member
Wilson Frazão  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 24
Portugal
Relative pitch it's the best...a good trained relative pitch...


"Music is the most physically inspiring of all the arts." - Frank Zappa
Re: What Famous Pianists Had Perfect Pitch? #1135732
02/21/09 03:28 PM
02/21/09 03:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,094
England
S
swingal Offline
1000 Post Club Member
swingal  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,094
England
I was told that I had absolute pitch. If one plays by ear then you either get the 'song' correct or you are incorrect. The first requirement. Secondly it is more important to know what note you should play wether of not the piano is up to pitch. A semitone out is no good. I find the piano loses pitch when due for tuning, simple but its surprising how many people get the pitch thing wrong.I find just one note out of pitch and that is enough for a tune up. In my case, as I cannot read music I have to rely on pitch and recognition of the piano and all the 88? notes. This is not difficult if done that way from your first teaching at the lowest age possible ! My mother showed me how and I never forgot what a gift she gave me.

Alan (swingal)

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