Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner - Non Classical Getting into New Age piano music...

Music is organized sound. Even in silence, there is perceptible sound. Most classical, romantic, and jazz are on the higher end of the organizational spectrum. On the same scale, steam whistles, street noise, and rap occupy the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life.

==================================
Posted by virtuosic1:

"Music is organized sound. Even in silence, there is perceptible sound. Most classical, romantic, and jazz are on the higher end of the organizational spectrum. On the same scale, steam whistles, street noise, and rap occupy the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life."
==================================================

virtuosic. I'm sorry, but I am leaving this conversation now. It is becoming tiresome and seems headed nowhere. Some of the things you say PW members would have been open to discuss with you and would have made for lively, interesting discussion. You make some valid points. Some of the things you say are factual, but some other things have more to do with your own personal likes and dislikes, your value judgements that don't necessarily hold water for the entire human race. And, unfortunately, you have an offensive way of expressing yourself.

Before I go, I'd like to say:

New Age music is NOT classical music.

I'm not sure it makes good sense, then, to compare it to classical music, and criticize it based on that criteria. That's like comparing impressionist paintings to those from the school of realism and pronouncing impressionist paintings "inferior" to the others.

New age music is what it is and should and can be appreciated for what it is.

Just because YOU prefer a different kind of type of music or fail to appreciate new age music - or country music, or rap or Japanese music or whatever kind of music - does not mean the other music is of no value, inferior, or whatever it is you are trying to say it is.

Some music is less complex or less organized, yes, that's factual. But the words you choose in discussing it seems to imply that less complex or less organized music equates to inferiority. Technically speaking, the music may be less complex, but that doesn't necessarily place it on the "bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life." A less complex piece of music can have just as much to say, and evoke just as much emotion, as a more highly organized, and more complex piece of music.

You are speaking in absolutes, but much of what we are discussing is subjective.

I give up on you, virtuosic1. You can go on living in your own closeted world of music. Making value judgements of other peoples music; pronouncing which of it is "wheat fields" or or no value or whatever you want to call it or say about it. That it's a waste of time, whatever. Go on and continue judging and belittling other people's efforts at making music, music that is appreciated and loved by others.

My husband's take on this:

"People who so vehemently trash any type music based on the grounds of it not being complex enough, not being melodic enough, not fitting some supposed rules are showing basically they are narrow minded, are unable to appreciate that other people can enjoy things that perhaps they do not, and perhaps have an agenda that's behind the scenes. No music needs a defense and anyone who attacks music along such lines as these is showing such a narrow appreciation for music that you wonder if they're a musician at all or if they have some other agenda. Basically they have blinders on to the rest of the world of music. If this is an ego trip then, call it what it is."

Jeanne W

And your rambling banter has nothing to do with your likes and dislikes? The problem here is that you are unable to understand my analogies.

In your topsy turvy world, where someone like Horowitz or Cziffra, in their prime, come out on stage, play 1 note, then bow and walk off to thunderous applause, I would be wondering, "Here's someone capable of alot more. This is what his concerts have been reduced to?", the same way as if Stephen Hawking decided to give up astrophysics and devote his life to the study of 1st grade mathematics. You rationalize, "Well, 1+1 = 2 is beautiful too, and I'm sure that there are many, like yourself, who find that simple equation positively charming", but why is a man that in all probability knows more about the Universe than any other living being performing rudimentary math now instead of pursuing his theoretical/mathematical exploration of black holes? Now, if once in awhile, he gave talks and worked some 1st grade math into his talks, I'm sure that his audience would tolerate his little idiosynchrosy, as long as he did talk about time, the big bang, and black holes eventually, otherwise if all he talked about was how nice it is that 1+1 =2, his audience would eventually change over from physicists, mathematicians, and astronomers to 1st graders and rubber-neckers with a morbid sense of curiosity.

I know this is going about 1000 miles over your head, and I know this by your failure to hear the differences between New Age pianists like Keith Jarrett and Kostia.

You should also inform your husband to spare the arm-chair psychiatry analyzing people that he doesn't know. I'm not vehemently trashing anybody. We're talking about simplicity vs. complexity here. Is a 50 foot building girder spray painted red a true work of art just because someone calls it art and likes staring at it from every conceivable angle, or is the Mona Lisa? My contention is that all music needs some type of symbiotic combination of both simplicity and complexity. You're the one vehemently trashing my opinions, which are based on music itself. Should I spare you the arm-chair psychiatry, or would you like to discuss your psychoses? Maybe you can consult your husband, the clinical psychologist beforehand, and then he and I can both confer your diagnosis.

**Editorial note: Oh boy. I'm sure this post will get me some new additions to my burgeoning "fan club".

Virtuosic:

You say you have not trashed anyone's music or ability. Following are excerpts of your posts here in this thread. If you read through them, maybe you'll be able to figure out why people here think that, yes, you are trashing people's music and abilities and that many of us find what you have to say offensive.

=====================================================================
posted by virtuosic about various new age artists and their music:

…music that sounds like first assignment homework that a beginning composition student hands in to his professor? It's the type of music you usually hear when you walk into the Sam Ash keyboard.

I'll wager that anyone here on this forum that's played piano and read music for more than 6 months could turn out a dozen simple ditties like "*****" within a week's time. What's next? Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?

Anyone here can already write, or be quickly taught to write similar nursery rhyme compositions. The only difference between (artist's name removed due to respect to the artist) and someone on this Forum is that (artist's name removed) writes nonsense like this believing that he's an artist, but the only artistry he displays is his ability to convince someone else that he's an artist

…low octave left hand pedal points will sound just as pretty, yet remain just as trivial as anything (artist's name removed) has composed and recorded. That's because any tone on a well made concert grand, miked and recorded properly will sound pretty, not because (artist's name removed) strung musical elements together in any type of meaningful, creative, artistic way.

I'm simply flabbergasted that someone composing and performing such insipid music that any (and I do mean any) beginning composition student can write, and anyone that's completed the grade 1 book of any popular beginning piano course system can perform can sell concert tickets and CDs. This is "rap" for the piano. Music stripped down to its basic skeleton. His music is like exhibiting monochromatic, roller painted canvases, people paying to view the frames. Mediocrity for the sake of mediocrity.

The advantage of recording pieces like this is that if you're even a mediocre pianist/composer, with very limited skills, you could probably knock out 10 CDs worth of music per day.

Can any of these "New Age" pianists play anything else but simple modal noodling with broken triads as accompaniament?

The nauseating right hand single melody lines…

(Addressing a PW member): If you knew anything at all about piano, composition, or music in general, beyond the most rudimentary of elements, you would be able to speak about the music on a technical level instead of resorting to name calling. That's what a wuss does.

(Addressing a PW Member) Can you manage that, you ridiculous lightweight? Because if you can't do that, you've just illustrated that you're the little, whining schoolgirl here.

It seems as though… this type of "New Age" piano music has taken a giant leap backwards in utter simplicity. It sounds like piano tuning, not playing. Anyone can make this type of music without any formalized compositional or piano study whatsoever.

There's nothing wrong with liking this simplest of New Age piano any more than liking the sound of a set of wind chimes in a strong breeze and I never said there was anything wrong. I just called it what it is from its technical/structural level. Wind chimes for piano. Nothing more, nothing less.

As I listen to his tunes, I get the feeling that nobody is sitting at the keyboard.

It sounds like he's tuning the piano, not playing it.

Show me musically, why you think his little nursery rhymes are the works of a groundbreaking, unparalleled genius.

I didn't attack anyone's abilities. I spoke on the facts themselves, specifically, the music. It's insipid. Nothing happens. It's like an 8 hour guided tour of a wheat field.

…rap occup(ies) the bottom rungs of the musical evolutionary ladder, much like amoeba and other rudimentary 1 celled creatures in the organizational scheme of life.

(Addressing A PW Member) I know this is going about 1000 miles over your head…

lol. Love it! One thing to be said for virtuosic, he doesn't indulge in carefully weighted ambiguities.

"8 hour guided tour of a wheat field"

...this is going in my scrap book of memorable sayings

Sadly, every comment here is all too true. Please feel free to quote me on any of these pearls of wisdom anytime you'd like.


You seem to be completely missing the points I'm making. Everybody that produces sound in some organized manner, from the nervous arrhythmic tapping of someone's pencil top on a school desk during an SAT test to a highly trained piano virtuoso is technically a musician. But they are not all great musicians simply because they are producing sound. From the comments I've read in this thread, I suspect there are some that would prefer the tappings of the pencil to an Art Tatum improvisation, or a Sorabji Pastiche, but that doesn't necessarily make the pencil tapping a brilliant composition and musical work of art.

Hi,

I think, Virtuosic1, that the so called "musical fools" you are refering to, may even agree with you, at least I do , nevertheless they have, as anybody, their right to promote their own likes and dislikes independent of your high standards; I belive words like "genius" and "great work of art" don`t have the same authoritative meaning in an internettforum like this, as it does in an academic or professional discourse; it may be you don`t fully recognise the democratic principle in this forum.

And, it might equally be said, the fact that something is played by a highly trained piano virtuoso doesn't necessarily make the result a brilliant composition or a musical work of art. Technique for technique's sake is more diverting than tapping for tapping's sake, but only briefly. Neither has heart.

Here's a whole lot of technique for technique's sake, it has alot of heart, it cooks, and it's interesting chorus after chorus:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KlUzK4Ua1iY

Yes, I used to listen to a lot of Public Enemy and other junk in my rebel hormonal years as a teen.

I know it's not music: it's attitude, contestation, bad lyrics, lots of dancing, lots of posing, white clothes and the likes. Not music at all.

You don't come to "develop an appreciation" for garbage. Either you're so entrenched into it that you don't know any better or you're out of your mind, like many indeed are.

Not at all. I actually enjoy Chinese and Japanese traditional music a lot: I hear a lot of solo guqin or koto pieces evertime I can get my hands at. I also enjoy the way japanese composers for animés and videogames blend traditional with western classical influences.

I like well developed music, like these traditions also display regardless of harmonic differences.

You forgot phat booty clapping, grills, and pimp cups.

Yeah Boyyyyyyyyy!

That must have been a "New age" post.