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#1131482 - 06/29/05 06:42 AM Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 163
saxguy Offline
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saxguy  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 163
New Jersey
I have been a saxophone player for 26 years and have played with the same band in manhattan for the past 12 years. I have limited piano experience but now want to take formal lessons. I know that most people start with classical and then work up to jazz. Although my theory is ok on saxophone, I realize that with the piano I will need to focus on chord structure more.

Are there teachers around that will start a new student on a jazz-based repertoire?


Bösendorfer 290
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#1131483 - 06/29/05 07:10 AM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 146
nickd Offline
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nickd  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 146
France
I think most people start with classical because 99.9999999999999% of music teachers aren't jazz musicians. Personally, I see no reason not to begin with jazz (modern or whatever).

nick

#1131484 - 06/29/05 10:24 AM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member
FogVilleLad  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
nicd,

You don't see any reason not to start with jazz, etc., because there isn't any. Jazz is a sophisticated genre, which can be as simple or as complicated as anyone could ever want.

DavidH

#1131485 - 06/29/05 05:09 PM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 335
Rob Mullins Offline
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Rob Mullins  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 335
LA CA
Hi,
Call David Budway, he is a great teacher in Manhattan and a lot of fun to be around. I'm sure the union has his number-he is the keyboardist for Tain Watts.


Rob Mullins
www.planetmullins.com
Recording Artist and Jazz Piano Instructor
#1131486 - 06/29/05 11:56 PM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 146
nickd Offline
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nickd  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 146
France
Hi DavidH,

I couldn't agree more.

I played classical from 7-14 years old, and then hit the big boredom with Mozart etc. My music teacher only knew classical music, there were no non-classical teachers around, so I started teaching myself "modern" music (anything and everything non-classical).

I've had many discussions about the subject, and a common argument is that you shouldn't start with "jazz" as you need to do scales, arpeggios etc first. I try to explain that the scale of C is the scale of C in both classical and jazz, but many people seem to associate jazz with anarchy and free improvisation and can't accept that there is discipline behind jazz and that it is structured.

Another argument says you should learn "real" theory before learning jazz theory. Again, I'm not sure what the difference is (a crotchet isn't a crotchet? a 9th isn't a 9th?...). I agree that once you go deeper into the subject they diverge or become parallel paths leading to different places, but the roots are the same.

Another argument I recently heard is that sight reading is an essential discipline and you should master it before doing jazz. I couldn't agree more about sight reading - but why can't I sight-read non-classical?

nick

#1131487 - 06/30/05 05:47 AM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 736
hgiles Offline
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hgiles  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 736
Charlottesville Virginia
I think the most important thing for an adult learner is to be doing something you're excited about. If you're excited about jazz then play jazz.

But, as mentioned, the basic theory of any kind of music is the same. What is accepted stylistically (parallel fifths for example) might be different.


Haywood
-------------
#1131488 - 06/30/05 10:21 AM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member
FogVilleLad  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
hg,

That's it! And everytthing else is just teachers who don't know jazz!

DavidH

#1131489 - 07/03/05 02:38 PM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
Gyro Offline
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Gyro  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
Based on your recent posts I'd suggest
you start with classical rather than jazz, for
a number of reasons:

-A classical teacher would be much
easier to find.

-You've already been into jazz for so
many years that plunging into it anew
with a completely different instrument
may be too much of the same thing.

-A brand new Boesendorfer is just made for
classical.

-All jazz teachers started with classical
themselves.

-There are certain basics of playing that
you learn in classical that any jazz teacher
would expect you to have before you plunge
into jazz piano--and which he can't be
bothered taking the time to teach you.

-Classical lessons in the early stages are
fun, while jazz lessons have a "seriousness"
to them from the start, which isn't.

-And so forth.

#1131490 - 07/03/05 03:56 PM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 139
kateriniparalia Offline
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kateriniparalia  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 139
Cali
Strictly speaking, I started with jazz... Let me quality by saying that I did come from a musical-ish background, and I worked on my own at learning piano (focusing on classical) prior to getting a teacher. However, my only formal piano instruction has been in jazz. Some of my teacher's students have a strong background of classical piano training, but others don't. Every once in awhile, my teacher will have me read something, and I'll not execute it exactly correctly, and he'll have to teach me something basic that someone with extensive classical training would have known, but it's not a big deal. We get past it, and I learn something in the process. As far as scales go, my teacher has me do scales (and Hanon) as part of my weekly work. If I'm missing something crucial that is going to hamper my ability as a jazz pianist because I didn't get a firm foundation in classical piano first, it's not apparent to me at this point. I worried a little about it in the beginning, and it's becoming less of a concern for me as I progress. Since I want to play jazz, I'm glad I found a solid jazz teacher. I want to progress in this genre as quickly (but solidly) as I can, and I think the route I've taken is working out very well.

#1131491 - 07/03/05 04:23 PM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 163
saxguy Offline
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saxguy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 163
New Jersey
I've started to look into finding a jazz-oriented intructor.

As far as the Bosie being made for classical, the CS series is voiced more towards the "American" sound which will make it fine for jazz. There are many jazz pianists who use Bosendorfers (granted, they're larger models).


Bösendorfer 290
#1131492 - 07/03/05 05:14 PM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,663
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Elssa  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,663
NY
This teacher can help you with both jazz and classical: smile

www.rosscarnegie.com

#1131493 - 07/03/05 08:34 PM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,820
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member
SteveY  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,820
NJ
Quote
-A brand new Boesendorfer is just made for
classical.
Or jazz...

Quote
-All jazz teachers started with classical
themselves.
Oh really? And you know this because...?

Quote
-There are certain basics of playing that
you learn in classical that any jazz teacher
would expect you to have before you plunge
into jazz piano--and which he can't be
bothered taking the time to teach you.
Can't be bothered??? What kind of sorry jazz teachers have you had?

Quote
-Classical lessons in the early stages are
fun, while jazz lessons have a "seriousness"
to them from the start, which isn't.
Wow! I guess I'd better get a refund. I always thought jazz was fun!!!


PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...
#1131494 - 07/04/05 10:07 AM Re: Starting with jazz/blues instead of classical...  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,755
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member
mdsdurango  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,755
Durango Colorado
I started my lessons in jazz and have never taken classical lessons. The biggest disadvantage that I notice in my experiance is that I still cannot read music. I can play pretty well and can read lead charts but set a score in front of me and I am hopeless. I don't know, but it seems to me that starting lessons in the classics would at least give you some reading skills. Besides giving you a different perspective. What's wrong with doing both? Find a teacher versed in both genres and learn both at the same time.


WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
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