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#1130243 - 03/21/06 03:39 AM November Rain intro  
Joined: Dec 2005
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Hooah Offline
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Hooah  Offline
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I asked this question before and never quite got around to answering the reply. Does anyone know the sheet music and chords for the intro? I tried looking it up and couldn't quite find it. I think I did find a successful sheet for it but I have no idea how to play a Abm/Eb chord.

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#1130244 - 03/21/06 10:20 AM Re: November Rain intro  
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Bob Muir Offline
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Bob Muir  Offline
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Lakewood, WA, USA
To play an Abm/Eb chord, you play Eb as the bass note, and play an Abm chord above that, (Ab, Cb, and Eb).

#1130245 - 03/21/06 03:17 PM Re: November Rain intro  
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Hooah Offline
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I don't think there is such a thing as a C flat. There might be but I can't find it.

#1130246 - 03/21/06 03:45 PM Re: November Rain intro  
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Bob Muir Offline
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It's the same physical key as B, but in the Ab-minor scale, it's called Cb because in a minor, the 3rd tone is always flatted. The 3rd tone in Ab-major is C, so C flatted is Cb. You can't call it B because B is already used in the Ab scale as the second tone (Bb).

The tones in Ab natural minor are:

Ab-Bb-Cb-Db-Eb-Fb-Gb-Ab

Ab-minor is the relative key to B-major. Which means that the physical keys are the same for both of them.

Edited: To correct F to read Fb. oops shocked

#1130247 - 03/21/06 03:51 PM Re: November Rain intro  
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wolfindmist Offline
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In a state full of Volcanoes
Cb=Bnat=B

My Lee Evans "The Professional Pianist's Fake Book" I found at a used book store use's Cb root chords a great deal. This book has some of the most difficult fake book arrangements I have seen so far.

Lee Evans has the Cole Porter tune "I Concentrate On You" and in one spot he used a CbMA7 then progressed to a Cb6.

It is ironic for me that you asked this question as I was looking at this song in this book; and stumbled upon the CbMA7 to Cb6. I am not sure I built it right (I need to check a chord engine I suppose); I just made a chord that sounded like what I heard on Ella's recording of that song.

Now why don't they just change the root names to BMA7 and B6?

I was told once that violinists will tell you that there is a difference F# and Gb.

Cb chords seem to be rare birds; I rarely see them in fake books.

I do see Cb notes when they are accidentals in a score though.


I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.
#1130248 - 03/21/06 04:02 PM Re: November Rain intro  
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wolfindmist Offline
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In a state full of Volcanoes
I guess this is one of those times when music theory can be very useful.

It took me a few minutes.... then I got it.

Can't get away from the scales... LOL.
Thanks Bob

Quote
Originally posted by Bob Muir:
It's the same physical key as B, but in the Ab-minor scale, it's called Cb because in a minor, the 3rd tone is always flatted. The 3rd tone in Ab-major is C, so C flatted is Cb. You can't call it B because B is already used in the Ab scale as the second tone (Bb).

The tones in Ab natural minor are:

Ab-Bb-Cb-Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab

Ab-minor is the relative key to B-major. Which means that the physical keys are the same for both of them.


I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.
#1130249 - 03/21/06 04:17 PM Re: November Rain intro  
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Bob Muir Offline
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Bob Muir  Offline
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Quote
Now why don't they just change the root names to BMA7 and B6?
Probably because the piece is already in a flat key and B-major uses 5 sharps.

Quote
I guess this is one of those times when music theory can be very useful.
Yep. One of several reasons I practice scales every day. smile

#1130250 - 03/21/06 04:18 PM Re: November Rain intro  
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Hooah Offline
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Ok i got it. I was looking at Cb and thinking that there is no B#.

#1130251 - 03/21/06 04:41 PM Re: November Rain intro  
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wolfindmist Offline
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In a state full of Volcanoes
Thanks again Bob.

The "I Concentrate On You" version by Lee Evans has 3 flats; and is in Eb maj.The last chord is supposed to be an E7 but I suspect an error as it has this after the last rest ")" . I went back to an Ebmaj7 instead of ending on the E7.

I think I am going to have to work on the Ebmaj scale; to help me get this song down better.

Ella's rendition has some other alternate voicings going on in it; and I will have to check it out to see if she even does it in the same key Lee Evans arranged it in. I wish I had Cole porter's arrangement of it to see what the original key he put it in.

(Anybody out there have this information on the original key of "I Concentrate On You"? If so, could you please send it to me either by PM or right here on this thread.)

Thanks again Bob. I am going to start practicing my scales again; I am rusty on some of the scales.

BTW Hooah: there is a B# is a C too (LOL)


I have my own weapon of mass destruction in the form of a "teenage" German Shepherd. Anything she spies and can get ahold of is fair game.
#1130252 - 03/21/06 09:47 PM Re: November Rain intro  
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Hooah Offline
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Hooah  Offline
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Ok wolfindmist, so a B# is a C. But there isn't a black key designated as a B# right? Excuse me for sounding like a n00b but Im new to piano and am using my guitar thinking in relation to piano.

#1130253 - 03/21/06 10:18 PM Re: November Rain intro  
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Bob Muir Offline
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Bob Muir  Offline
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Lakewood, WA, USA
Everybody has been new and had to find middle c at one point. smile Don't sweat it.

Sharps and flats are not defined as black keys. The definition of a sharp is that the note is raised by one interval or step. So C, raised one interval is a black key and it's called C#. The B key, raised by one interval happens to be a white key and it is called B#, (although most of the time it might be called C).

Likewise, E# is a white key, (usually called F), Fb is a white key and Cb is a white key. Clear?

The reason for this, as I said before, is that all scales are labled alphabetically from the first letter up through the eighth with no duplicates. Because each line and space on the staff has a letter indicator, if you had duplicates, then you wouldn't know which note was being represented on the line or space.

So with Ab-minor, Ab-Bb-Cb-Db-Eb-Fb-Gb-Ab, if you were to call it Ab-Bb-B-Db-Eb-E-Gb-Ab, then you would have two different notes for the line or space represented by the letters B and E.

Incidentally, the same scale is also represented by G#-minor, but it is spelled G#-A#-B-C#-D#-E-F#-G#. Note that the physical 'B' key is now labled a B, and the physical 'E' key is now labled E. So normally, you would want to use G#-minor to name that scale, but when you're already in a flat key, you may not want to use a chord with a lot of sharps in it because it can get confusing.

Edit: I was getting my Ab and Bb scales a bit mixed up. I've made the corrections above. I need more scale training along with Wolfie. shocked


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