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#1128747 - 12/12/08 07:26 PM Why jazz?  
Joined: May 2008
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PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
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So really why? Jazz has always seemed to me quite vulgar and even impotent in comparision to real classical music. I am wondering what is it that drives people to keep playing it. I understand there is heavy aspect of improv- but what I dont understand is why restrict yourself to the general schematics of jazz. I think there are plenty of wonderful jazz musicians(thelonius, tatum, etc..) but I can't understand how they never broke out of their jazz shells. In my opinion jazz is a cancerous blemish on the body of classical piano, though I'd be interested in hearing others idea(especially if you actually play jazz in a somewhat competant manner).

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#1128748 - 12/12/08 07:32 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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ll Offline
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ll  Offline
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Ah! Elitism at it's penultimate finest smile


II. As in, second best.
Only lowercase. So not even that.
I teach piano and violin.
BM, Violin & Percussion Performance 2009, Piano Pedagogy 2011.
#1128749 - 12/12/08 07:39 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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quiescen Offline
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San Diego
Hi Pianoplayerman,

Perhaps I can put this whole issue into perspective by comparing what happens in the music world with the art world.

For example, suppose I'm a watercolorist. I love watercolor and have always enjoyed paniting in this style. Now, along comes an oil painter and says, "I can't understant what anyone sees in watercolor painting. It's not really art."

Do you see how inane this comparison is? The real reason many classical pianists fall into this comparison/put down trap is that they feel threatened by something that isn't "sophisticated." This isn't to say Jazz isn't sophisiticated. It is to say that judging an art form is a purely subjective and therefore relative act.

You like classical piano. Good for you. Now, can you allow for other forms of expression without feeling the need to defend your own idea of what "good" is?

The world is big enough to contain many forms and styles of music.

--------------------------------
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com


Edward Weiss
Quiescence Music
http://www.quiescencemusic.com
#1128750 - 12/12/08 07:40 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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Theowne Offline
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Theowne  Offline
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This reads like a very well-done parody. Good job, PPM!


http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。
#1128751 - 12/12/08 08:13 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
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PianoPlayerMan1994  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by quiescen:
Hi Pianoplayerman,

Perhaps I can put this whole issue into perspective by comparing what happens in the music world with the art world.

For example, suppose I'm a watercolorist. I love watercolor and have always enjoyed paniting in this style. Now, along comes an oil painter and says, "I can't understant what anyone sees in watercolor painting. It's not really art."

Do you see how inane this comparison is? The real reason many classical pianists fall into this comparison/put down trap is that they feel threatened by something that isn't "sophisticated." This isn't to say Jazz isn't sophisiticated. It is to say that judging an art form is a purely subjective and therefore relative act.

You like classical piano. Good for you. Now, can you allow for other forms of expression without feeling the need to defend your own idea of what "good" is?

The world is big enough to contain many forms and styles of music.

--------------------------------
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com
Perhaps if the watercolorist restricted himself to only the few colors which he liked it, the analogy would be more accurite.

#1128752 - 12/12/08 09:11 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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knotty Offline
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Quote

. In my opinion jazz is a cancerous blemish on the body of classical piano,
Are you for real?
This is awesome!

90 years ago you might have had an argument. Just like Rock&Roll coulss have been called a cancerous on jazz 60 years ago. And Rap on Rock 20 years ago.
But to think that today Jazz is hurting classical music... come on...

#1128753 - 12/12/08 09:34 PM Re: Why jazz?  
Joined: Nov 2004
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jazzyprof Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
So really why? Jazz has always seemed to me quite vulgar and even impotent in comparision to real classical music.
....
In my opinion jazz is a cancerous blemish on the body of classical piano
And you, sir, are an ignorant, cancerous blemish on this forum.


"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
#1128754 - 12/12/08 09:42 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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Larisa Offline
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Philadelphia
Did my old piano teacher get a PianoWorld account somehow? Sheesh.

#1128755 - 12/12/08 10:06 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
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Perhaps some of you misunderstand my words. What I am saying goes beyond mere opinion, I happen to be stating the obvious:

Jazz piano, is a restrictive artistic medium. An individual jazz piece cannot escape the grasp of the medium of jazz as a whole- thus all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality).

In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation. With this in mind, how, in goo consciousnse,could anyone tolerate such music(or rather loosely connected noise in the opinions of many).

#1128756 - 12/12/08 10:17 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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jazzyprof Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality).
...
With this in mind, how, in goo consciousnse,could anyone tolerate such music(or rather loosely connected noise in the opinions of many).
How, in good conscience, could anyone tolerate such atrocious spelling?


"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
#1128757 - 12/12/08 10:34 PM Re: Why jazz?  
Joined: Sep 2008
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Horowitzian Offline
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Horowitzian  Offline
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This idiot is really going to town isn't he?


[Linked Image]


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
#1128758 - 12/12/08 10:38 PM Re: Why jazz?  
Joined: Aug 2006
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apianostudent Offline
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CA
Quote..." An individual jazz piece cannot escape the grasp of the medium of jazz as a whole- thus all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality"

I'm betting that you don't have a thorough understanding of jazz music and/or it's history. Jazz, like classical music has changed through the decades and it's change is a VERY audible. Try googling it or find some videos in Youtube.

Additionally, your previous comment reminds me of people that state all classical music sounds alike. Surely you don't agree with that assessment.

#1128759 - 12/12/08 10:45 PM Re: Why jazz?  
Joined: Sep 2006
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rocket88 Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by quiescen:
Hi Pianoplayerman,

Perhaps I can put this whole issue into perspective by comparing what happens in the music world with the art world.

For example, suppose I'm a watercolorist. I love watercolor and have always enjoyed paniting in this style. Now, along comes an oil painter and says, "I can't understant what anyone sees in watercolor painting. It's not really art."

Do you see how inane this comparison is? The real reason many classical pianists fall into this comparison/put down trap is that they feel threatened by something that isn't "sophisticated." This isn't to say Jazz isn't sophisiticated. It is to say that judging an art form is a purely subjective and therefore relative act.

You like classical piano. Good for you. Now, can you allow for other forms of expression without feeling the need to defend your own idea of what "good" is?

The world is big enough to contain many forms and styles of music.

--------------------------------
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com
Surprise, Quiescen...I agree with you completely. Good explanation. smile


Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.
#1128760 - 12/12/08 10:45 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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FlipSpiceland Offline
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Successful troll is successful

#1128761 - 12/12/08 11:14 PM Re: Why jazz?  
Joined: Jan 2004
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mdsdurango Offline
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Durango Colorado
Quote
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
Perhaps some of you misunderstand my words. What I am saying goes beyond mere opinion, I happen to be stating the obvious:


In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation.
Well, I think he means contest, but hey - I say:
YEAH!!! Vulgar is good! Especially as a "human impulse".
No wonder I love jazz!


WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
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#1128762 - 12/12/08 11:39 PM Re: Why jazz?  
Joined: Apr 2007
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JDelmore Offline
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JDelmore  Offline
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I'm betting the "1994" in the OP's username is a birth year?


PTG Associate Member

"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)
#1128763 - 12/12/08 11:42 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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Horowitzian Offline
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That's everyone's best guess. Makes him a juvenile delinquent. :rolleyes:


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
#1128764 - 12/12/08 11:49 PM Re: Why jazz?  
Joined: Apr 2007
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JDelmore Offline
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JDelmore  Offline
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LOL!!

Characterizing jazz as 'cancerous' is about as ridiculous as dismissing classical as "that longhair music", one I've heard all my life (well, not so much recently...).

On a more constructive note, I would urge OP to visit the following link, and peruse especially the "Musician to Musician" and "Theory and Analysis" rooms.

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/index.php


PTG Associate Member

"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)
#1128765 - 12/12/08 11:53 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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Rob Mullins Offline
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Rob Mullins  Offline
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LA CA
1994...number of neuron firings per year maybe?


Rob Mullins
www.planetmullins.com
Recording Artist and Jazz Piano Instructor
#1128766 - 12/12/08 11:58 PM Re: Why jazz?  
Joined: Aug 2006
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sotto voce Offline
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sotto voce  Offline
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Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Quote
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation....
Confusing "contest" and "contend" is kind of hilarious, given that it creates a statement that's the opposite of what's intended. Good thing he's not a lawyer; cases have been lost—and malpractice suits won—over less.

It reminds me of a lawyer I once knew who confused "prescribe" and "proscribe." 'Nuff said. wink

Steven

#1128767 - 12/12/08 11:59 PM Re: Why jazz?  
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Theowne Offline
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Toronto, Canada
Quote
An individual jazz piece cannot escape the grasp of the medium of jazz as a whole- thus all jazx pieces end up sounding like variatoins of one another(at least in terms of color and a general sense of tonality).
This is really quite silly. All genres are "restrictive" and have elements which sound similar. All Baroque music share similar elements of color and tonality. Are you going to critique Baroque music now?

Quote
In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation.
You'll have to explain this one for me. For example, here are two jazz pieces I came across today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V9VSxn2F9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKpuR09s_mQ

I'd like your opinion on how these pieces use the "most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation".

I'm sorry to jump to conclusions, but your very fuzzy language seems to imply that you don't know anything about jazz, rather, you might have read something on the internet which sounded convincing and thus now take it as an opinion.

I would love to be proven wrong, though....


http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。
#1128768 - 12/13/08 12:09 AM Re: Why jazz?  
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sotto voce Offline
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Would a troll in any other forum smell as bad?

I recommend that anyone check his posting history before casting their pearls before swine.

Steven

#1128769 - 12/13/08 12:09 AM Re: Why jazz?  
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playadom Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Rob Mullins:
1994...number of neuron firings per year maybe?
NICE!


Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
#1128770 - 12/13/08 12:09 AM Re: Why jazz?  
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PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
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PianoPlayerMan1994  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by sotto voce:
Quote
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
[b]In addition I can't imagine you could find a single person on this board whom would contend that jazz, as a medium, uses the most vulgar of human impulses as a foundation....
Confusing "contest" and "contend" is kind of hilarious, given that it creates a statement that's the opposite of what's intended. Good thing he's not a lawyer; cases have been lost—and malpractice suits won—over less.

It reminds me of a lawyer I once knew who confused "prescribe" and "proscribe." 'Nuff said. wink

Steven [/b]
my darling, you are quite mistaken. For the word contend has several different uses, here are just a few:

1)struggle to surmount
2)engage in a competition or campaign in order to win or achieve
3)assert something in a position in an argument

It should be evident that I was using the third usage. Feel free to verify what I have said.

Sotto, perhaps you should add a bit of deliberation and thoughtfulness to your posts so that you don't go making errors such as this in the future. I'm glad I could clear up your misunderstanding 3hearts

#1128771 - 12/13/08 12:12 AM Re: Why jazz?  
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PianoPlayerMan1994 Offline
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Sotto, I just notocided in your post that your name is Steven. I believed you to be an elderly female from because of your earlier posts- so I obviously wouldn't have called your darling or used the heart emote if I had known your were a male(which I now assume you to be due to your signature)please let me know if im wrong as to your sex.

#1128772 - 12/13/08 12:12 AM Re: Why jazz?  
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Horowitzian Offline
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Oh, damn. Now Steven is a darling. What next from this seemingly bottomless cesspool?


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
#1128773 - 12/13/08 12:14 AM Re: Why jazz?  
Joined: Oct 2006
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playadom Offline
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playadom  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by PianoPlayerMan1994:
Sotto, I just notocided in your post that your name is Steven. I believed you to be an elderly female from because of your earlier posts- so I obviously wouldn't have called your darling or used the heart emote if I had known your were a male(which I now assume you to be due to your signature)please let me know if im wrong as to your sex.
I thought you hated old ladies wink


Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
#1128774 - 12/13/08 12:15 AM Re: Why jazz?  
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playadom Offline
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playadom  Offline
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I quote [not properly -- the quote feature doesn't work on closed threads]

"You really are acting like a horrible old lady. Perhaps their is an angry dissaffected old lady's forum that you can join that would allow you to denounce us all more effectively, and with like minded disaffected grumpy old women."

Also, "Sotto, I just notocided in your post..."

Notocided? Notocided????


Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
#1128775 - 12/13/08 12:17 AM Re: Why jazz?  
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sotto voce Offline
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I hate to admit it, but this has become far more amusing than vexing.

But the target is so easy that it's practically unsportsmanlike to engage the person.

Don't you love that simultaneously high and mighty yet pathetic and thoroughly wrong defense of "contend"?

You can't make this stuff up.

Steven

#1128776 - 12/13/08 12:19 AM Re: Why jazz?  
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playadom Offline
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playadom  Offline
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I'm always up for a good round of semantic jousting!


Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.
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