Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Recital 12 -- Critical Discussion Room

Welcome to the place where critical discussion of the pieces from Recital 12 takes place!!

It is requested that only the pieces from performers who have requested critical feedback (as indicated in the main recital thread) be discussed.

Please don't be shy about asking questions or offering constructive advice to the performers. After all, the goal is improvement of the playing.

General discussion and chit-chat should take place in the General Discussion Room.

Please use this thread only to discuss recital performances. If you have any comments or suggestions about ways to make the recital process better, please start a separate thread.

flyingfroggy:

I loved your performance - there is only I thing I noticed that could be improved resulting in an even better playing.

In the Agitato part, especially towards the end, when you try to go faster, your triplets sound quite uneven giving the feel of hesitation between them. Perhaps the best way to make them completely even is to play them with accents every two notes in the right hand. While playing them that way don't loose the legato in the melody - the highest note should be held for the whole triplet where possible.

It sounds awkward and feels strange - but after getting used to it when you return to playing them as triplets with accents on the melody, the result will be much more even and in control.

When you feel it's not under full control yet, don't rush - the Agitato parts sounds much better when played a bit slower but accurately, than faster but not fully controlled.

Sorry for being picky, I hope you don't mind I'm working on this piece right now and I know that it's quite tough in places.


Best wishes!
Mateusz

Mati, do you mean I should practice accenting every other note in the right hand (first and last note of the first triplet, second note of the second triplet, first and last note of the third triplet, etc.)? Or do you mean something else entirely?

I don't mind your being picky at all; it's very helpful!

Yes, every other note. So: (accent normal accent) (normal accent normal) (accent normal accent) (normal accent normal) in a single measure. It sounds _completely_ awkward at first, but helps a lot. I had troubles playing it that way for hours until my fingers learned how to work against logical accents on the beginning of each triplet.


M.

OK, it sounds challenging, but I will try it--thanks for your help!

Regards,
froggy

11. Benny - Comptine d'un autre été: l'aprčs-midi

Since we both submitted the same piece, I hope you don’t mind me asking you some questions.

1 – Your submission seems to have more color than mine. It is especially noticeable at the very beginning. I suspect you are using pedal, possibly syncopating? If so, are you lifting the pedal once or twice for each measure. Also, do you retain the same syncopating pedaling technique throughout the entire piece, or are you modifying it slightly in different parts depending on melody so that it does not sound too muddy?

2 – At the end of the second time through measure 8 you add noticeable fermata. I like that. It creates a nice anticipation for what is to follow. You seem to do it again at the end of measure 16. Nice.

3 – Now here is the real difference between us. In the arpeggios from measure 17 to 21 you adopt a completely different style. Indeed, it is quite different from following the emphasized (sforzando) marks shown in the sheet music. Plus you add more fermata at the end of each measure. You give it a nice twist. Did you think of that yourself, or do many people play it that way?

The way it is written with the sforzando markings I interpret it to mean that the composer wants two voices in the right hand, one playing the sforzando notes as a strong melody, and the other playing the arpeggios as accompaniment. It’s actually difficult to accomplish and I believe in my version I may have overdid the effect. In the original sound track from the movie “Amalie” the stronger melody voice is noticeable, but not as strong as the way I play it. I think I need to back off a bit on that.

4 – At the end of measure 21 you follow the “Ralentir..” (retard.) shown in the music, but then you immediately pick up the tempo again in measure 22, even though the composer is not asking you to. I have to admit, I find that the second part drags a bit, especially at the slower tempo that I am following. I am not skilled enough to play it faster. Perhaps I should adopt your way of returning immediately to the original tempo.

Thank you very much for providing such a contrasting submission to mine. I appreciate the opportunity to listen to a different interpretation.

Of course I am hoping for a response from you. But don’t feel obligated to do so if you do not have the time or the inclination. Even if you do not respond I believe the points I have raised will be of value to others who are currently working on the piece.

Congratulations on your fine submission.

Gary001: I enjoyed your Minuet in G; it is one of the first pieces I played when I came back to piano as an adult (1.5 years as a child, I think; I've blocked it out!) The piece is burned into my brain because both of my kids played it, too!

Anyway, Check your F# at the end of the 3rd and 11th measures; I think you’re playing F natural. Otherwise a completely lovely performance with nice ornamentation!

AdagioM: You've got good ears

As it happens, Ed private messaged me to point out the same thing. I'll have to run through the piece again tonight and double check all the F's.

Thanks to both of you for catching this.

JF,

Criticizing technic and recommending how to fix it is one thing, but criticizing someones choice of music is another.

I find your comment inappropriate. That's all I'm going to say about that since I don't like going back and forth on opinions or wasting my time on diatribes. Thanks

Hello Orez Eno,

thank you very much for such a kind and detailed feedback!

When I noticed the second submission of this Tiersen piece a week or so ago, I have been very curious about your interpretation.
It is so interesting how different our approach is.
I would like to comment on your rendition, too, but at this point, let me try to answer your questions.

1 - The structure of the left hand's part is actually quite simple: a succession of broken E minor, G, B minor, D chords. Repeated through the whole piece.
I think, it is the important harmonic base, but it can be played well in the background contrasting the clear and bright melody in the right hand.
So, I used the pedal to get the left hand's part without attracting too much attention for the single notes.
In most cases, I used the pedal one or two times for each measure, I do not remember, what I exactly did during this recording.
In measure 5-8, I additionally released the pedal on the longer notes to avoid a muddy sound. (It was a little bit difficult for me, because I had to be rather quick).

2 - Thanks. I very often show the tendency to separate different sections this way...

3 - "twist": I heard a rendition of the pianist Jeroen van Veen who gave me the idea. But I am a bit variable here: Sometimes I play it without it!
I do not know many other interpretations, so I am not sure what people usually do here.

4 - I have never thought about it. For me it was clear that I have to slow down only for the passage to the next section.
But you are right: it is not explicitly indicated there.

Thank you again. People like you make this place so friendly and interesting!

Now a small comment on your rendition: First I was astonished how differently you played. Then I found it .... just great!
I think, this is one of those pieces which are more difficult to play slower than faster. The reason is: the phrasing must be very exact,
otherwise the whole thing falls apart in single notes. Here, you did a great job, everything develops naturally and is coherent. Congratulation!

Benny

I've never posted to a recital and this was the first time I listened to any.

What caught my eye was Monica playing one of David Nevue's arrangements. I learned of Nevue from one of Monica's post, and now have a couple of his albums and love them.

When I first saw the JF post, I thought

"why in the heck is this guy complaining that it did not match the original"

it was played beautifully ... thought that's what it's about.

OK, ruckus over ..... please!

Let's not give the critical forum a bad name. Some useful stuff can still be gleaned from offering and receiving serious and thoughtful critical commentary.

BTW, I did NOT see the original post. I have noticed, however, that Monica (who I guess was the 'target') did not think the issue merited a response of any sort.

[comes bumbling into party late]

Well, it looks like there was a bit of a controversy, and seeing as I was the only person who contributed a new age version of a hymn, I'm guessing it was about my piece.

Lisztener, while I do appreciate your efforts to defend my honor, such as it were, I also have a pretty thick skin, so I'm sure I would not have been offended by whatever JF said.

He may actually have a valid criticism. As I said in my notes, I'm not familiar with hymns. I chose that piece to record because I thought it was a pretty piece of music on its own merit. I do get the impression that Nevue's arrangement throws in some extra melody and improv. And I can understand that some people might prefer their hymns straight up, so to speak. That's perfectly okay.

IMO, the critical discussion room should be a place to offer any critical comments relevant to the recital, as long as they're offered politely, of course.

Oh, dang it, I was writing when Piano*Dad was writing HIS post... so now it appears as though I *do* think it merited a response, which I really don't...

Please, everybody, I was not/am not offended by anything that was said/may be said in the future about my playing or choice of music. I'm dropping the issue and hope everybody else will, too. Group hug, all around.

JF,

Previous posts deleted to lessen controversy.

Regards,

Lisztener

Please can we see some moderation on this thread, the exchanges between JF and Lizstener are not even vaguely on topic.

Thanks

Monica - great playing of an excellent arrangement of a wonderful, classic hymn.

But . . .not to sure about that technique aspect referred to as "staccato" in the piece - nice first effort on that, but it will improve with repeated attempts.

Regards, JF

John,

I don't have the score from which you were working, so that's obviously a handicap! It just sounded to me as though some of the melody notes (the nagila after Hava, for instance) got shortened. That may in fact be exactly what's in the score (as a sort of syncopation) as a desired effect.

Piano*Dad - I played & recorded the piece from memory - I've had it memorized for some time and hadn't looked at the music since I first worked on it over a year ago - so I pulled out the music and followed along with my recording - here's what I discovered:

The initial lyrics of the song are:

"Hava nagila,
Hava nagila,
Hava nagila,
ve-nis-me-cha . . ."

It's the "nis" part of the last quoted line that's being short-changed (and not one of the "nagilas") - the "nis" syllable is supposed to be carried across two notes (1st F & E, treble staff), but I'm either not hitting the E at all or I'm hitting it so lightly and quickly that it's virtually inaudible - this occurs 6 times throughout the piece) - I think I just simply missed it because of relying on memory - it's not a difficult move - just 2 eighth notes - no other possible excuse!

Thanks for drawing this to my attention.

Regards, JF