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#1116203 - 01/28/07 10:39 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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loveschopintoomuch Offline
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I'm glad. smile And thank you. Somehow learning to play together is a great motivator. thumb

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
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#1116204 - 01/29/07 12:13 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Kathleen:

I believe I may have given you some bad advice earlier so I'd like to correct myself. I said on the fast passage to rely mostly on wrist rotation. Upon further reflection I think you should use BOTH wrist and finger movement, about equally. I think this is the best way to avoid fatigue.

I've been playing a fast piece for the last month and it has been making my hands and arms tired. I was relying almost soley on rotational technique to play this piece and today I experimented by using more finger movement to see if it helps. It did, and now I can play longer without getting tired. So it seems relying too much on rotation is not a good idea.

I feel kind of guilty for giving out bad advice. I'm sorry. frown I edited my earlier post so nobody else will get the wrong idea reading it.

#1116205 - 01/29/07 09:05 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Thanks, Sarah. I haven't reached the point yet (oh please :rolleyes: , some time in this decade), that I have to worry about speed. I'm still figuring out the best fingering and trying to memorize several mesures at a time, that, I hope, will allow me to work up to the tempo suggested.

Please don't feel bad about giving me what you consider "bad" advice. I appreciate any comments you have to offer. smile

I so admire your playing. heart

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1116206 - 01/30/07 01:02 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Quote
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:

Please don't feel bad about giving me what you consider "bad" advice. I appreciate any comments you have to offer. smile

I so admire your playing. heart

Likewise. I think you play with a lot of feeling. smile

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#1116207 - 02/02/07 01:30 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Well, this just won't do.

I have to bump us to the first page.

However, I am making some progress. Did I say some? I should have said a little.

I am really toughing it out on this one.

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1116208 - 02/02/07 02:35 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Definitely a lack of interest here. Everyone seems to have moved on. Kathleen, I think you and Sarah are the only people who listened to my recording (as nice as your comments were). frown


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#1116209 - 02/02/07 04:52 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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PianoAgain, I have listened to your 55.1 (but not until now) and it's really an interpretatian done by a real musician - very beatuitful. I have had a break from this Nocturne -going back to it now - I'd like to play it more or less like you did... wink Your playing is very good all the way, but what impresses me the most is how you reveal the "hidden melodies" in the LH triplet section and the "molto legato e stretto" part.

Be proud of yourself thumb

Ragnhild


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#1116210 - 02/02/07 05:12 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Piano Again, I apologize if some of the other members have slipped away. I think they may have put the nocturne on the back burner for a while. Or maybe, after learning the first two pages (the easy part...ha), then coming to the 3rd page with those triplets...well, it might have proven a little too difficult or more than some might have wanted to take on at this time.

I really don't know. But I think that most of the original "crew' have learned and played it here. There may be just a couple who are still hanging on..

BUT, there is no lack of interest here, really. I will still be here...probably until doomsday eek ...because I've come this far and won't give in until victory is mine!! thumb

What will you be learning next? Probably not another nocturne...at least, for a while.

Please check back on this site in a day or two.

Regards,
Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1116211 - 02/02/07 05:35 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Oh, no need to apologize! I did come on board here very late (like, in November, when the rest of you started in July). I appreciate the comments (thanks Ragnhild!), but the real reward is just in learning the piece.

I'd like to start working on a new Chopin piece, but I can't decide which one. Maybe a mazurka ...


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#1116212 - 02/02/07 05:45 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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maybe the 27-2 nocturne Piano again? - i'd love to join a group studying that one!

Just wondering if any of you guys know where to find systematic discussion of the nocturnes specifically (apart from what is on this and other PW threads). I know of a book that discusses each Chopin piece in great detail and suggests how to play it, what motivated it etc etc - buts its very expensive!

#1116213 - 02/02/07 05:59 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Piano again, I don't normally visit this thread (so many threads, so little time...) but Kathleen alerted me to your lovely playing and it really is excellent. Well done!

"When I was finished, she said, "Do you know how beautiful that was?" Okay, I'm being self-promoting, but it made me feel good."

And a little thanks to the composer too.... laugh

#1116214 - 02/02/07 06:03 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Thank you, maryrose.

What I really hate is when I play something for someone, and when I'm done they say, "Boy, that sounded hard." :rolleyes:

If anyone is wondering why I've been hanging around here all day, it's because I have nothing to do at work today, so I'm just trying to look busy here until I can leave.


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#1116215 - 02/02/07 06:14 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Quote
Originally posted by stephenc:
I know of a book that discusses each Chopin piece in great detail and suggests how to play it, what motivated it etc etc - buts its very expensive!
What's the name and author?


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#1116216 - 02/02/07 06:50 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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I think some people moved to the newer nocturne 48-1 thread. I joined this one late and might join the other one late too.

StephenC, maybe you can find that book used on Ebay for less. Or maybe you can get it at the local library and copy the pages for the pieces you want to work on.

#1116217 - 02/02/07 07:00 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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good point Sarah M, always trust Ebay.

Just did a google search actually - I'm not entiely certain of the title/author, but this could be it (it says it has a brilliant detailled analysis of every work)

Chopin: The Man and His Music
By: Huneker, James

and its only $6.99 U.S (it was $120 Aus in the store I visted -assuming this is the book!)

http://www.ebooks.com/subjects/b/897/1.asp

#1116218 - 02/02/07 07:06 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Piano again,

Just skipped back a few posts and saw your recording of the 55.1. It truly was beautiful, your work on the ornamentations was just great! You should be very proud thanks for sharing it!. Its becoming very tempting to learn this one also - I just can't help but think that the piano was invented solely for Chopin's nocturnes!

#1116219 - 02/02/07 07:11 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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The $6.99 price is for an e-book. That means it's a file you download that you have to read on a computer of some sort (handheld or PC).

I found the hardcover version used on amazon for $50.

Might be worth a trip to the library to check it out first ...


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#1116220 - 02/02/07 07:21 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Lol, Thanks for the tip - how silly of me. Its downloadable!!!

suddenly $6.99 US doesn't seem so bad! I think I might download it and print the pages I want (for now) - I doubt I'd find a library nearby that has it.

#1116221 - 02/02/07 08:11 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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WAIT STEPHENC: The book: Chopin: The Man and his Music" by Huneker can't be the one you are thinking of. I have this book and found it somewhat enlightening, but there are better ones out there, I'm sure. I got mine on E-bay (a paperback version...just as complete as a hardcover) and I paid about $12.00. On the back of the book, the publisher price was $9.95 (US).

First of all, although it does devote a chapter to the nocturnes, it certainly doesn't give a really detailed account of each one...some, but not all. And not a very detailed account at that. And, there is no way Huneker could write of the motivation behind them because Chopin never (or hardly ever) spoke about his music and wouldn't write about his "inspiration," if, indeed, he had one. When he wrote them is also questionable, as Chopin often held back some of his music to send to his publisher at a later date. So be careful of any book that promises info like this.

The book isn't bad and I think it's worth the money (about 12 US). Another book for your consideration is "The Chopin Companion: Profiles of the Man and the Musician..edited by Alan Walker. There are many chapters, each covering a different aspect of Chopin as a man and also several devoted to "types' of his music. The preludes, nocturnes, etudes, etc. Each chapter was written by an expert musiciologist and I think this book is more professional and academic in its context. I also bought it on e-baby for about $10.00 (paperback).

Please don't pay $60 for any book without consulting your library or going on line to see if there is a write up on the book, somewhere.

I think both of the books mentioned will be very helpful. But neither are definitive. I don't believe such a book about Chopin and his works has ever been written. I could be wrong, but I just think it would be impossible to cover every aspect of every one of his compositions. Too much is unknown. Even the actual music itself (or acccuracy of it) is often in question.

You could also go on the Pianist Corner. They may know of some good book on that forum.

I wish you lived closer, I would send you both of my books for you to read and then you could see if you would like to purchase them. I could still do this, if you would like me to. I would be happy to do so...just say the word.

Regards,
Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1116222 - 02/02/07 10:25 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Aha!!!! I found it - contacted the store I saw it at. Looks like part of a series of books devoted to composers. Whats evebn better is my University has it available!! (now I wsih i didn't graduate and could still loan books with my student card! - i'll have to tee some one at work up to get it who's still at uni)

What I remember of it is it went systematically through the entire Chopin repertoire and discussed it in great detail with several pages devoted to each piece, including suggestions for playing each piece (i.e the dynamics and phrasing to use and where etc).

Synopsis (from UK Amazon)
"This work is part of a series of comprehensive practical guides for the solo piano. A reference book for all levels - amateur, student, teacher and professional - the purpose of the series is to help pianists with their choice of music to suit their own styles and capabilities, and to discuss their technical and interpretive demands. This volume provides a complete survey of Chopin's music for solo piano, including a graded list of his works together with detailed suggestions for study and performance. An extended introduction places Chopin in the context of his time".


From the Publisher

"The present volume is illustrated with copious musical examples. It gives a complete survey of Chopin's music for solo piano, including a graded list of his works, together with detailed and constructive suggestions for study and performance. An extended introduction places Chopin in the context of his time, distancing him from the romantic misconceptions that have dogged his reputation through successive generations".


Amazon U.S

http://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Pianis.../002-4151586-0140846?ie=UTF8&s=books

Amazon UK With synopsis

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chopin-Graded-Practical-Pianists-Repertoire/dp/1871082676

With front cover

http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Chopin-ISBN_1871082676.html?isrc=b-search

#1116223 - 02/02/07 10:30 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Kathleen - what an incredibly generous offer to loan your books!

If I did live closer I would certainly accept, but being SO far away definetly makes it hard - I'd be too concerned about them being lost or you being without them!

#1116224 - 02/03/07 02:41 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Quote
Originally posted by stephenc:
Kathleen - what an incredibly generous offer to loan your books!

If I did live closer I would certainly accept, but being SO far away definetly makes it hard - I'd be too concerned about them being lost or you being without them!
I have to agree with StephenC's comments.

I'm amazed at what a kind person you are kathleen. I've been dogged so many times by so many people (many claiming to be my friend) that I hesitate to let people borrow anything. The fact that you are so generous with your things amazes me and says really good things about your character.

And StephenC, it's so cool that you don't take advantage of other peoples' generosity. I know a lot of people who would say "sure, go ahead and send me that book," but instead you show a lot more sensitivity toward other people's belongings.

I'm so impressed with everyone in the ABF!

#1116225 - 02/03/07 09:48 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Stephenc: Wow...what a great book you've found. It definitely is THE book. I think I am going to order today. smile

As for the kind words about my generosity...thank you. But, in all honesty, when a person gets older (or, at least some people), they discover none of their possessions is of any value unless they can share it with someone else. I know this sounds trite, but nothing I have can't be replaced. And, nothing I have will diminish my life any, if I lose it. It's all just "stuff."

I'm glad you found your book, Stephen. Thank you for telling us about it. Good luck with Chopin. He's worth every ounce of blood, sweat and tears. thumb

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1116226 - 02/03/07 10:09 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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StephenC: I just ordered the book from Amazon. I'll let you know what it's like when I get it.

I do need a lot of help playing Chopin, so (rather than getting lessons,) maybe this book will be the way to go for me.

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1116227 - 02/04/07 04:22 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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thats awesome Kathleen! I can't wait for it to arrive to you! Hope its all I talked it up to be...

Whats the turnover time for Amazon deliveries generally?

#1116228 - 02/04/07 10:32 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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I ordered a "used-but in excellent condition" copy, and from past experience, I've been extremely happy with this classification.

Just how long it takes to get it depends on from which seller you buy it. (I don't pay that extra few dollars for the speedy mail).

I've received books three days after I ordered them. Another seller...I was waiting four weeks and still hadn't received it. So I canceled it, then the next day, I got it, but the seller never did charge me for it because I had waited so long.

So...(are you still with me?), I look at the number of rating stars people have given the seller, and I only use those who have 4 or 5 out of 5 stars.

I expect to get the book by the end of the week. And thank you again for finding this book. I would have never known about it, or even known a book such as this one existed.

I approach a new Chopin piece on a rather hit-or-miss situation...and many times, it turns out to be a miss.

Regards,
Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1116229 - 02/04/07 11:00 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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Hopefully you get a good seller!

Theres something intriguing about getting some professional insight on the pieces you play - especially ones that have existed for 200 odd years. I was learning the 9-2 nocturne when I saw this book and I recall it spoke among other things about not playing the piece with over-exaggerrated expressiveness. I then took more notice of the way Yundi Li played the piece on his live DVD and he gives a truly grand performance without being dramatic as the text alluded to. I guess it's little tips like these that one can really take delight in once you've done all the hard work of learning the notes. I got the feeling the book was like a masterclass on paper.

#1116230 - 02/05/07 10:28 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Study Group  
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I hope so, Stephenc. The book was sent on Saturday, so it should be here soon. And I do hope that it will be like a "masterclass." That would be great!

As you know, Chopin disliked any overly emotional interpretation of his music. But it's difficult not to put a little heart into it.

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
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