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Thanks everyone for your encouragements.

It actually feels like a healing process to post a piece that is clearly 'in progress'; in other words, filled with errors.

I am going to take all of your suggestions and practice slowly, so I can be aware of tension when it happens and release it. Thanks so much for the help.

Opus, I don't think I'm the only one who would like to hear your sections A through H at quarter note = 50.

And I agree with dk about the 5-2-1 fingering for F-C-A flat.

It's not a stretch to have your 2nd finger on C and then play the A flat with your thumb. (Since you've already released the low F, after playing it with 5.)

5-5-1 is extremely awkward to play at, say, mm = 90.


Mel

Yeah, I'll second that. Let's hear some progress recordings! Speaking of which, I took a night off from the piano. So don't expect anything from me. I recently got to purchase a new laptop for myself with work funds and it arrived this week. I am going to get loaded down with business software tomorrow and prob start loading up all my personal stuff after work. Next recording I post will be on a brand new laptop!

...speaking of recordings dk, I forgot to mention that your recordings sound extremely nice in my speakers (quality of sound as well as the quality of playing).
Reminds me of the old "Is it live or is it Memorex" commercials...really good sound!

And...you guys have convinced me to give your fingering pattern a more serious effort. After all, if ALL of you are using this fingering, then it must be the most efficient. 5-2-1 it is!

I practiced sections E through H slowly, all the while noticing any tension in my body and releasing it.

It became really clear why I would stumble on some parts. I hadn't sufficiently learned some passages, so the added anxiety of recording myself caused problems. Now those sections are starting to feel secure.

I also spent time practicing slowly the c# minor section, especially the transition section M, and the very tricky Q, with its own transition back to the repeat.

This is certainly an incredible amount of fun.

Mel

I'll put up a progress recording of Piano*Son tonight. He leaves for a three week summer course at Franklin & Marshall tomorrow, and we head off to Germany after that, so he'll be out of action for six weeks. We'll see how much rust accumulates on our hands!

I've completed the first page for anyone that wants to no.

Let's here it!!!

A little late reply.

Mel, yes, this is an incredible amount of fun!! Thank you everyone, it' really great to have so many practice-partners!!

Jeff, since I started with my current teacher a year ago, fingering instruction is one of the main things where I feel this teacher is so great, because she has helped me and taught me so much about fingering. Last year was the year of my fingering-revolution even!

So, based on the things I've learned from her, here are some more random comments of fingering...

I think it's safe to say that there are two main reasons why certain fingerings are chosen over others. (Sure, there are other reasons, but IMO two really major ones)

1) To keep your hands in a good place to go to the next note, both allowing smooth playing and preventing finger/physical strain.

2) To get the best sound, or the desired sound, out of each note.

So a particular fingering might feel good, but is considered not the best choice if it doesn't produce as good a tone as a different fingering. One really common guideline that my teacher has drilled into me is to not use the same finger for two consecutive notes if at all possible.

Would everyone like to comment on this, perhaps add more guidelines? What do you use for your own guidelines when picking out fingering? I'll try to see if I can do a better job of verbalizing some of the other things she's taught me.

Debussy, glad to hear you're making progress. Any comments, what was easy? Difficult? I've forgotten, are you using K's version too?

Im learning both. Ive mastered both versions first page and started the Burrows second page

OK, here's a first try at the whole thing by Piano*Son Anthony. He uses the Burrows edition through measure 34 and then switches to the kanemasu version. He makes one change to Kanemasu in section I. He doesn't like the growly bass in the bottom octave so he moved it up one octave. I figure that in a piece like this it's dealer's choice. He does the repeat at the end.

Once again, pardon the laptop mic. There was a little bit of distortion and clipping. He's still working to get bits of it up to speed and reduce the number of misfires.

This is a streaming podcast, so you have to have QuickTime.

Anthony is off to three weeks at Franklin & Marshall tomorrow, and we head to Germany for three weeks after that, so polishing will have to take place later!

Podcast Page

Enjoy,

David

Hello to everyone working on Croation Rhapsody. It is great to have practice partners isn't it?

Thanks for sharing your comments about fingering Shiro, it is always easy to tell you are a teacher by profession (and if you ask me, you're well suited for the teaching profession).

Fingering is something I've only recently given any serious thought. In the past year or so, I noticed that for other classical pieces I've worked through, if I follow suggested fingering patterns (instead of what I might simply land on by happenstance) that, more often than not, I learn to appreciate the value and wisdom of the written suggestions if I give them a chance. In other words, other more experienced people usually have better fingering suggestions than I tend to come up with on my own. That's why I want to understand more about the basic mechanics of piano fingering techniques.

Also, I had an experience recently where I actually had significant pain in my fingers & hands from practicing something repetitively (Take Five), and my teacher suggested a fingering change which almost immediately resolved the issue of pain. This made me think more about fingering in general.

I appreciate everyone's patience with me with regard to asking about fingering (I know it can be a dull topic, but I also know if there's anyone else on this planet who has interest in fingering patterns for the Croatian Rhapsody, they are reading and posting in this thread )

I'm probably not going to push myself this weekend, rather, I'll spend time polishing sections A-H [getting it all up to mm=50? (or higher?)], and make my first foray into the dreaded section "I" (oh boy!)

I hope everyone has a great weekend!

Piano*Dad...we were simul-posting. I'm listening to Anthony's recording now. I promised you I wouldn't be jealous if you posted his recording, so I'll keep that to myself. It is amazing how quickly he got this piece up to speed, and I am in awe. I would love to hear this without the obvious clipping, but I do understand the immediate limitations of your recording. I hope he has a great time this summer and that all of you enjoy your trip to Germany. Thanks again for sharing his very, very impressive progress on the Croatian Rhapsody!

Piano*Dad according to my math anthony has completed the piano in 14 days. WOW. Our original estimate was to have the piece done by New Years! It looks like anthony has a big future in music ahead of him....

I agree with Debussy20 - a big congratulations to Anthony for the fantastic work!

I've picked the music back up after about a week of working on other things. Am getting the first two pages done, but its slow. The chord change is becoming automatic, so I'm either focusing on the sheet, or my right hand.

Quick question: during the intro, (Burrows edition), there is a chord A(b), C, and F - in measures 10, 12. Have I got it right? It sounds pretty bad when I play it.

The fast part near the start isn't so difficult as I was first thinking. I actually find it easier with hands-together, rather than apart. Strange! The only reason I can think of is that my brain is focusing on two things at once, which means auto-pilot is being used, rather than concentrating solely on right hand.

Euan,

Measure 10 corresponds directly with the first measure in the "C" section of the K version, which has a different chord (triad) [F-Ab-C(middleC)].

You have the right notes, but I agree with you that it doesn't seem to sound very well. I might consider changing the chord in the Burrows version to [F-C-F]...you could tie the lower F from the 3rd beat, or play the F in the third beat as a quarter and again in the F-C-F chord on the 4th beat.

How does that sound?

Piano*Dad, Piano*Son, FANTASTIC!!! Really wonderful! And inspiring, Anthony's rendition has all the elements that made me want to play this piece in the first place. His tempo is fantastic, the rhythm sounds so great at this speed! He may already be gone for his camp, but if he's not, please let him know how impressed I am with his playing!

Opus,thanks re fingering,. One of the reasons why I changed teachers last year was because my previous teacher was not able to help me with fingering. (well, the fingering issue was sort of the last straw.) Now, with my current teacher, I'm realizing that being able to teach fingering and give guidance on fingering is an extremely advanced teaching skill. My previous teacher's hands and my current teacher's hands are both much smaller than mine. But my current teacher is not at all affected by that. She'll say "I use that fingering, but your hands are bigger so you should do it a this way." And not only does she say "use X fingering" but she tells me why and we talk about the pros and cons of different fingering. This is especially important when there are two fingerings that are both good choices, but each has a different good and bad point. So she's doing that thing that all tecahers should aspire to, but only the best of teachers are able to do: give me the knowledge to become less and less dependent on her instructions and more and more able to figure it out on my own. These days when I come in with some fingering and she says "yes, that's a great choice" I feel pretty pleased with myself, but I know that it's all thanks to her teaching.

Ok, sorry, I'll stop bragging about my teacher now!

BTW, Piano*Dad, I'm surprised Anthony didn't like the low bass in Section "I," I thought I would play it without dropping an octave, but after I got it up to a decent speed, I decided I really like the way it sounds. Listening to Anthony's recording, there's nothing lost there, so it's really just an individual choice. But it's interesting how different people prefer different sounds etc.

Okay folks, this is my first attempt to record to this forum.

I've recorded sections A-F (not polished at all). I'm still working on getting it smooth at mm=50.

Let's see if the recording works:

Croation Rhapsody A-F mm=50

[Edit: Well, the recording works. I can actually play it better than that (red dot syndrome), but I wonder if I'll really be able to get this up to speed by the end of the year?]

Shiro: yeah, he's gone to the camp. I'll pass along your compliments. They're not allowed any internet access, so he won't be able to browse for quite some time.

Debussy20: when he really wants to learn something he can suck it down fast as long as it's not pushing him beyond his current technical capabilities. I sure as heck couldn't get the structure of this piece down in that time. What helps him a lot is memorization. Once he memorizes something, the pace goes up.

Jeff: I'll listen tomorrow. I just got off the road from PA and want to get some sleep!

Best,

David F

Opus45, that was great! I am really impressed. You guys have not been working on this long at all. I don't think it will take you long at all to get it up to speed. (And it almost doesn't matter, because it sounds pretty good at the slower pace, too.)

Jeff, that's fantastic!

I especially liked that you play each note with clear and even articulation.

But you must have a different set-up than I do.

In mine, whenever I press the red dot, it automatically adds up to 5 missed notes per page.

It's part of the program, I think.

Mel