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Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111163 12/04/08 01:46 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by AnthonyB:

I keep asking myself if I should go back to Alfred's just to finish but whenever I try I can't seem to keep at it for very long.
I guess that's the essence of my question. If you and are deriving great(er) or equal benefit from playing what we can of Einaudi's simpler pieces, what would be the point of doing other work that isn't as enjoyable? It sounds like you and I are in the same place on this question.

If there is greater value in working through the methods (be it Alfred's, Bastien, traditional exercises, or what have you), I'd be ok focusing on those for a few months, or years, or whatever it takes. More importantly, if I become convinced there is greater value, that's what I would do.

Maybe a teacher would / could convince me.


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111164 12/07/08 09:00 PM
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AWTPP, I think the answer to your "greater value" question depends entirely on what your goals for piano are. If you want to be a well-rounded pianist with excellent technique and familiarity with the canon, then an "All-Einuadi" curriculum won't cut it. If you want to learn to play music that is so beautiful it makes your heart ache, then "all Einaudi, all the time" is all you need. (Erm, can you tell I'm just a little bit biased? wink )

More seriously, I recognize that there are several glaring gaps in my technique. Make that Grand Canyons in my technique. I can't trill to save my life, and any metronome marking greater than 100 or fast runs will make me break out in a cold sweat. So, as much as I love Einaudi, if somebody told me they wanted to learn to "play piano" in the abstract, I'd advise against a diet of pure Einaudi. But if somebody told me "I love Einaudi's music and would be happy playing only music that sounds like that the rest of my life," I'd have no qualms in telling them that they should follow their heart, and that's indeed what I have done. heart

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111165 12/07/08 09:25 PM
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Monica, that is a beautiful post. thumb


Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111166 12/08/08 07:20 AM
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Yea, what Monica said makes a lot of sense for most of us.

I would however mix up Einaudi with a few other composers (I like Nobue Umatsu from the final Fantasy piano collections) as well as Jim Brickman, David Lanz etc.

Also, if you can hear some of these beautiful melodies in your head, why not give composing by ear a try.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111167 12/08/08 11:58 AM
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A simpletons question about Le Onde Canzone popolare

Bars 5-12 Bass Clef shows the E tied for all 8 bars. Is this correct as the note will only hold for a few bars before fading out.

Am I misreading this?

Waiting in anticipation of looking silly smile

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111168 12/08/08 12:35 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Monica K.:
AWTPP, I think the answer to your "greater value" question depends entirely on what your goals for piano are.
My piano goals are simple. I want to play as effortlessly as KawaiGirl. I mean, duh.

All kidding aside, I picked up the piano seriously in the hopes of playing classical music. Having since learned what all is required to get me to that point, I've had to define some interim goals, because, if indeed I ever become the piano player I want to be, it'll take many years. Goals (for me, anyway, and probably for most) don't work that way. We need interim milestones to feel like we are making progress, otherwise become despondent about our apparent lack of progress. These Einaudi pieces represent some early milestones for me. But I have to admit, I have larger goals, not just classical, but even some solo Jazz piano. And I am convinced that, in order to play that stuff, I am going to have to know my technique (er, "tecnic") and theory.

Not that I am ready to set aside Einaudi pieces either. I don't know if I share your goal of playing the entire catalog some day... some of his pieces... how shall I say this? Some of his stuff is boring to me. I can confidently say I will never learn L'ultima volta, for example.

I've got a lot of work to do. Sounds like I just need to practice more. Next up in Alfred's Book 2: Bridal Chorus from "Lohengrin".


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111169 12/08/08 02:25 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Monica K.:
Make that Grand Canyons in my technique. I can't trill to save my life, heart
Monica, a simple solution to your trill problem - you just need to look at Nuvole Nere!
wink

(might have a problem with the fast runs - don't know any Einaudi pieces to help that)

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111170 12/09/08 09:09 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Blackbird:
A simpletons question about Le Onde Canzone popolare

Bars 5-12 Bass Clef shows the E tied for all 8 bars. Is this correct as the note will only hold for a few bars before fading out.

Am I misreading this?

Waiting in anticipation of looking silly smile
Hope you weren't holding your breath, blackbird! laugh I saw your question yesterday at my office and was pretty sure I knew the answer but wanted to look at the sheet music before responding.

Yeah, that note is really tied for all those measures. To make things even more baffling, the music calls you to pedal several times during that long duration, so even if there were any sustain going on, the pedalling would seem to clear it.

The only thing that I can think of is that Einaudi calls for that note to be tied and held down so that the string would vibrate sympathetically with other notes being played later on. confused

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111171 12/09/08 04:25 PM
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Pedaling questions on I Due Fiumi:

1. Is the entire piece Una Corda, except those few measures where you go into the high treble registers, and it's specifically marked 3C?

2. The LH is a bunch of broken chords. Do you sustain each measure? Do you sustain across measures where the chords are complimentary?


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111172 12/09/08 04:31 PM
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1. Yup

2. Not sure exactly what measures you're talking about, but I usually pedal at all chord changes, even if they're complimentary. (Oh, and I pedal *constantly*.)

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111173 12/09/08 04:43 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Monica K.:
Hope you weren't holding your breath, blackbird! laugh I saw your question yesterday at my office and was pretty sure I knew the answer but wanted to look at the sheet music before responding.

Yeah, that note is really tied for all those measures. To make things even more baffling, the music calls you to pedal several times during that long duration, so even if there were any sustain going on, the pedalling would seem to clear it.

The only thing that I can think of is that Einaudi calls for that note to be tied and held down so that the string would vibrate sympathetically with other notes being played later on. confused
Thanks Monica

Yours even more confused by this music lark ....walks away scratching head laugh

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111174 12/09/08 04:54 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Monica K.:



2. Not sure exactly what measures you're talking about...
EVERY measure. From the sound of things, this is your approach.


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111175 12/10/08 05:39 AM
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Hello all! I'm new here, but I know Piano Monika from the Einaudi forums (thanks for the point to this thread!)

I find with the pedalling of phrases that sometimes it's better to mix and match pedalling. I used to pedal so mechanically - at every chord change. While true to the recordings, I have recently found it more expressive to not be so even with it, and Ludovico himself has started to change this in more recent performances I've noticed.

For instance, if the left hand accompanyment is only a chord, then - apart from the melody - it is not vital to pedal. For example, if the left hand plays a broken chord while sustaining. Instead of pedalling the broken chord, you can sustain it manually with the hand, and make the right hand melody more staccatto'd, giving the impression that one hand is pedalled and the other isn't.

In the end, I think pedalling every chord change is a safe technique for beginniners, but to achieve great expression you should be prepared to deviate from this a little. The flowing beauty of Ludovico's work is at it's best when it's given contrast in places.

As for Canzone Populare, I don't have the sheet music here, but I believe the E which is sustained underneath should be sustained manually, so that it slowly fades under the other left hand notes. It wouldn't be cleared by pedalling this way, and will fade away nicely. Played at the correct tempo, there shouldn't be a long time, if any time, where you can't still hear the E.


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Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111176 12/10/08 06:36 AM
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Hi Josh, welcome to the forum!

I am also on the Einaudi boards (although less often now than previously).

Your compositions are very beautiful and am looking forward to you sharing your knowledge of Einaudi's music also.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111177 12/10/08 07:22 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Always Wanted to Play Piano:
Quote
Originally posted by Danny Niklas:
[b] I think we could invent a new beginner learning method based on Einaudi music alone. It is based on the three most important patterns of music (arpeggios, chords and scales), it is slow enough but require a steady rhythm, it is that beautiful to trigger motivation and boost self-esteem, it requires a great care for dynamic and phrasing.

I got the idea from a piano student who learned to play on Final Fantasy tracks. After two years he had become so good, to choose to apply for grade 8 piano. Not only he passed the exam, but was congratulated for possing a magnificent touch and musicality that normally students at that level don't possess.

Would you choose Einaudi over Bastien?
I'd like to revisit this question. For now, I have effectively shelved Alfred's for Einaudi, but I'm questioning the extent to which this is a wise decision.

I'm making reasonable progress on I Due Fiumi, which seems to me an exercise in arpeggiated broken LH chords, with a few RH scales (sort of) thrown in for good measure. In all honesty, it's arguable (a piano teacher would argue, I'd think) that I have no business attempting any of this music. I have had no lessons, and have only completed one method book (Alfred's Book One). To me, I Due Fiumi (and the other Einaudi pieces I've attempted) are much more enjoyable than doing exercises. I tip my hat to those of you able to do your Hanons. To me, that's simple drudgery, and who has time for that? My (piano) bench time is far too scarce to do things that I find annoying.

On the other hand, there must be SOME value in these exercises (Hanons. scales, arps), otherwise they wouldn't have lasted through generations of piano teachers and students. I accept that, so long as I avoid doing these things, I willingly forgo the benefits those exercises bring to those who undertake them.
[/b]

They have lasted because of "tradition" and tradition is such a strong force no matter how nonsensical and useless something is, tradition will preserve it and also because they're an easy way out for many. It is harder (yet more useful) to choose carefully pieces and accomodate someone's musical predisposition, compared to just "prescribe" the same method books which have been used over and over.

Scales and arpeggios have their intrinsic utility and I wouldn't remove them from the practicing repertory, but it's important to practice them musically.

Quote
On the other hand... if there is some long-term technical value in learning to play things like simpler Einaudi pieces (Limbo, Stella del Mattino, I Due Fiumi), that would be the best of all worlds, would it not? Playing things I enjoy which, oh by the way, also have beneficial long-term side effects.


Technique can't be separated from music. Whatever you can't play is a technique to learn. Fast arpeggiato patterns, crescendo, chords, rubato, staccato, soft, pedalling, chromatic passage, note reading ... aren't you learning all of these "technique" by playing Einaudi pieces?

It's a bit like yoga.
A yoga beginner practices beginner yoga positions.
A yoga advance practices advanced yoga positions.
You're not asked to practice "technique separated from yoga". How boring and demotivating would be to be learning yoga and be asked to run slowly in place for 40 minutes?

Quote
So what's your take? Does playing these pieces make you a better player?


Always ask yourself the magical question:
“What I can do now that I couldn't before?"

Einaudi is not used alien techniques that are needed for his pieces alone. He is implementing in a personal creative ways universal piano technique that would be needed to play a million of other pieces.

Everything in music is either a jump, a scale, an arpeggio or a chord. These are the four categories you can place whatever musical line in.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111178 12/10/08 07:51 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Josh Winiberg:


As for Canzone Populare, I don't have the sheet music here, but I believe the E which is sustained underneath should be sustained manually, so that it slowly fades under the other left hand notes. It wouldn't be cleared by pedalling this way, and will fade away nicely. Played at the correct tempo, there shouldn't be a long time, if any time, where you can't still hear the E.
Welcome and thank you for the advice though it does confuse me slightly.

Am I correct in understanding that I should be playing the E and then keeping the key depressed throughout the next 8 bars?

I have done that at tempo, playing a recording in the background just to confirm the timing and the E fades just before the end of the 3rd bar (i.e. bar 7).

I have many impediments to piano playing apart from my fingers, one of which is learning on a poor keyboard. Would that cause the lack of sustain that you suggest.

Or am I just keeping it depressed because it would have an effect on other notes subsequently played, pretending I'm playing a real piano smile

Any help to clear the fog appreciated laugh

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111179 12/10/08 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Winiberg:
In the end, I think pedalling every chord change is a safe technique for beginniners, but to achieve great expression you should be prepared to deviate from this a little.
Nicely said, and welcome (again), Josh!

Blackbird, I think you hit the nail on the head that the type of piano will matter a lot in how long the sustain lasts. I would just hold that note down for the duration and not worry unduly about it.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111180 12/10/08 01:57 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Monica K.:

Blackbird, I think you hit the nail on the head that the type of piano will matter a lot in how long the sustain lasts. I would just hold that note down for the duration and not worry unduly about it.
Thanks Monica, now moving on laugh

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111181 12/16/08 12:27 AM
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I've been messing around with some of the pieces in the "Best of" book, and I've noticed something I don't quite understand: "1 C." "3 C." For example, in "Limbo", under measures 7, 31, 55, 63, 71.

What does this mean? Maybe it's just my inexperience, but I've only seen this in this Einaudi book.

Thanks.

Re: Ludovico Einaudi
#1111182 12/16/08 01:26 AM
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1C and 3C are markings for use of the Una Corda pedal. Some digital and even upright pianos lack this functionality. What this pedal does is move the hammers over a bit so they only they can strike one fewer of the strings (where applicable) as well as the strings not hitting the normal spot on the hammer. This generally will cause a softer sound.

Where you see a 1C you would depress the Una Corda pedal (usually the left pedal) and release it where you see a 3C. The piece will still usually sound ok even if you ignore these markings. However, my digital piano supports this feature so I have a second pedal to take advantage of it. smile


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