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On a dark and stormy night you might have to read that piano literature with a flashlight - and I would certainly not want to turn on my digital piano to play anything (probably pull the plug instead!).

Rich - Thanks for the additional listing of graded series - they could be worthwhile - but, can one have too many choices? It gets confusing after awhile (not to mention costly)

Regards, JF

P.S. I might post our summarized listing as a new topic for anyone interested (Alfred user or not) in the ABF.

Thankyou, I will!

Old Fingers-

Listening isn't cheating- it's one more learning tool. I used a variation on what you did. I don't have a portable recorder to tape my teacher's playing, but I do have notation software on my laptop. So I just plugged in the tricky parts and listened to them, over and over. Then took the laptop in to the piano, and played along with it, ever so slowly at first till I got it. It is definitely so much easier if I know how it's supposed to sound.

An my assignment for this week with Rock-A My Soul is to do exactly what you did- get that left hand part in muscle memory, so that I don't have to think about it, and just do it. I'm tripping up on it every time, because it's not automatic enough.

I have not gotten into the Prelude yet, but counting has never been too much of an issue for me. I think it's because I sang for so long, that switiching counting modes is not all that confusing. Of course, the real trick is to do that, hit all the right notes on the right beats, and make it all sound like music, too!

Mak, thank you for sharing your practice style. It is very effective indeed. FYI I use a Zoom H2 for recording, Audacity for cutting and normalizing, and "The Amazing Slow Downer" for time-scaling.

I would like to ask a favour. When you get to the Prelude and the two measures that shift time to 1/6 notes, would you let me know how you deal with it. Perhaps, because of your previous experience, it will be straightforward for you, but if you have to think about it, I'd appreciate knowing what you are thinking.

Bob

I don't mean to throw a wet blanket but I submit this for consideration. Yes the gentleman was very kind to send that information to you. This is in all likelihood not an issue but I feel compelled to ask if you asked for and received permission from the gentleman to post his letter and name on these public forums? If not, I think it would be totally appropriate to ask for permission or at the very least edit out his name and other personal and professional information from the post.

I agree, very good information by the way.

PhysicsTeacher - good point, but rest assured that permission was asked and granted - his only stipulation was that I emphasize that he was NOT offering his recommendations as an OFFICIAL representative of Alfred Publishing Co., Inc., which I did specify near the beginning of that post that contained the copy of his email.

Glad you found it to be very good info.

Regards, JF

Bob-

Do you mean the 2 measures of triplets in the last system? I just got the book and looked at the piece. I have not tried playing it yet, but as the time signature really does not change there, it's just two triplets in 2/4, rather than straight eighths or quarters. I think, just looking at the music, that if I have difficulty in that section, I would set the metronome to a slow 2/4, and then work at getting the triplets (counting "trip-a-let for each of the 2 beats) into the beats. And ramp up the speed as the muscle memory develops. But that's just from a look at the music and not playing it. When we get to that one, my teacher may have a suggestion for working thru those measures, as well.

Mak, you have it exactly right. Using the metronome and counting "one-and-two-and, trip-a-let trip-a-let, trip-a-let trip-a-let, one-and-two-and" it works. If I then do it playing one note or chord in the RH or LH, that works too. But then when I try to alternate so that "trip-a-let, trip-a-let" = "RH-LH-RH LH-RH-LH" I get messed up. I need to really concentrate on where the beat falls. I'm probably thinking about this too much.

BTW, I think it's terrific that you can hear the music from a singer's point of view. I'd love to be able to sing along with some of the pieces we are playing but my voice has a range of about five notes.

JF, thanks to you for my first successful "quote".

Bob

Bob-

Yes, definitely, in a case like those triplets in the Prelude, it is a matter of coordination between the hands. Once you have the notes figured out, it can be just as difficult to get the hands to work together in the right sequence. But, like so much else in learning a new piece, the key (I believe) is slow, steady practice.

As for the singing, I hear pretty much everything I play "sung" in my head. Most of the time, I'm singing the count, but it's still sung. I don't know if it helps or hurts, but it's hard to turn it off!

Mak, I'm not a musician, but I know enough to know that the ability to hear the music in your head before you play it, is a gift. Have you ever thought about playing jazz piano?

Thank you for reminding me to slow down. It seems that I need to be reminded of that lesson almost weekly.

Bob

You and me both, Bob! You have no idea how many times my teacher says: "Slow down! Speed is easy to add. Learn to play it right first!" I think I should tape a sign that reads "S--L--O--W" across the front of my piano! LOL

As for the jazz stuff, I love jazz! But those tricksy rhythms are the killers for me. Sure, I hear 'em, but can I play 'em? Umm, no. But I have a book of jazz and blues stuff that I pick at occasionally. And I love to work on those old standards, too.

I'm putting the fiishing touches on "A Classy Rag" (nice ragtime piece with no major challenges), and looking ahead I see the that the next piece in line is Clementi's "Prelude in D Minor", which from just glancing at the structure of the music doesn't appear to be a very difficult work.

However I notice that the time signature is indicated as a C with a vertical line thru it (as in the old "cents" symbol), which is common time cut in half (aka "cut time") or 2/2 time instead of 4/4 time. This means, of course that there is two beats per measure with a half note getting one beat. This also implies that quarter notes are treated as eighth notes and that eighth notes (of which there are many in the piece) are handled as sixteenth notes.

This all brings up two questions:

(1) there is no explanation here about "cut time" (nor is there a definition in the glossary) for those who may not be familiar with it - was this introduced previously in the first 2 Alfred books somewhere (I can't recall that it was)? Or is this a concept that the authors supposed that the student's teacher would explain (and demonstrate) at this point? It would seem that a brief intro to (or review of) the idea would have been nice at this point.

(2) when you worked on this piece did you play it in "cut time" adjusting the note values as appropriate, or did you simply "think" of the time signature as 4/4 time (ignoring cut time note values) and play it with the more accustomed note values in 4/4 time (which it would be easy enough to do) and perhaps speeding up the tempo to compensate)? You might have done this inadvertently if you hadn't noticed the cut time signature when you originally played it

Regards, JF

P.S. Edit to add that this may have been a misprint, but doubtful; the next piece in Book 3 in cut time is Sailor's Hornpipe on pg.90.

John-

The way I was taught to deal with cut time is to think of it as an indication of emphasis and speed. So you want a definite "two" feel to the music, with the emphasis on the first beat in the measure: Strong Weak | Strong Weak. And, in clasical music particularly, it indicates that the piece is meant to flow fairly quickly. But that's just what I was taught, and could be well off base.

As for that Prelude, the cut time indication is generally held to, and that piece is played rather quickly. I like it slower, but then I'm not going to be playing it at Carnegie Hall or anything! LOL

Mak - yes, that's exactly how I understood it - I've also noticed that a lot of marches are in cut time, and we all know how they clip along!

Thanks for your input, JF

Yes, indeed, most marches are in cut time. It is used to indicate that feeling of constant forward movement.

JF and Mak, thanks for the lesson on cut-time. I am embarrassed to admit that when I worked on the Prelude I didn't even notice and my teacher didn't make an issue out of it. Perhaps it's because I simply tried to emulate his playing, which temporally was just as IrishMak explained it. His comment to me was to get a "rolling" feeling. I think I know what he means by this but I can't explain it.

JF, it's no wonder you don't need a teacher. Thanks again for your lesson "copying".

Bob

I agree it is for the feel and rhythm (measure wise and also phrase wise).

Sometimes you have to sing it out to get the feel (it also free yourself to express the music without worrying about your fingers and wrong notes, etc.)

It is the same with 6/8 versus a fast 3/4. Mathematically you can make the two the same in speed, but the feels are (should be) different.

I know Frank is familiar with classic hymns (sorry to others, I cannot think of a popular song as an example as I don't sing much popular songs), so take "Praise Him Praise Him" for example. It is 6/8. If you sing in 6/8, the feel (and slight and not overdone emphasis) should be:

One - two - One - two - PRAISE Him, PRAISE Him, JEsus our blessed reDEEMer

Whereas if we do it in 3/4, even after bringing up the speed so that it is the same as the 6/8 version, the emphasis would be more or less like

One two three One two three PRAISE--HIM--, PRAISE--HIM--, JEsus our BLESsed reDEEMER

I don't know if I successfully communicated it. Well, I tried.

Dave,

Your counting shows that you understand the difference between 6/8 and 3/4.

Most 6/8 pieces are closer to 2/4 than to 3/4, and that is the meter you are describing. The pulses in 6/8 are on 1 and 4: Strong weak, Strong weak. One reason a composer would use 6/8 is to make it easier to notate as eighth notes rather than to use eighth note triplets in 2/4.

If you are looking for another time signature that is closer to 3/4 in feel, it would be 9/8. The pulses are Strong weak weak in both of these.

A key to help you understand how the composer wants the pulse to feel in these signatures is to notice how the eighth notes are beamed. If they are beamed in groups of 3, that indicates that 6/8 should feel like 2/4.

Rich

I'm starting to work on the middle section of the "Prelude in D Minor" (I usually break a piece into study-sections based roughly on phrases, work on each separately for awhile and then put it all together) and when I came to the 15th & 16th measures (the 3rd & 4th measures of line 2 on the 2nd page) I came to a screeching halt and had to study the music for a little to figure out what was going on.

My final determination was that the 2 sets of 8th notes in measure 15 shown on the bass staff are to be played by the right hand because (1) the fingering as indicated is really twisted and torturous for the left hand and (2) there is no music indicated at all on the treble staff.

Now I know in the past when one hand played notes on the "opposite" staff there was usually some indication such as RH or LH as a guide, so they either forgot it here or figured by this stage you should be able to figure it out. But it did give me pause - did you find this to be the case with you when you played this piece?

Regards, JF

Yes, those are played with the right hand. The same figure occurs again on page 3. It really didn't give me any trouble, because when we got to those measures, my teacher said, "Use your right hand to play those."