Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
114 registered members (aliao, AlanB, adamjh, Almaviva, anamnesis, Albert Brighten, 31 invisible), 1,997 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1066635 - 07/10/08 03:58 PM counting, rhythm, fractions  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
musdan Offline
1000 Post Club Member
musdan  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
Back to the fourth grade and drawing pies on the blackboard,

My first teacher sort of taught it but didn't really spend much time on counting/rhythm. It's important to my new teacher and she's right on.

Math and I are at odds with each other and it's really a challenge for me - whole notes, 1/2, 1/4 8th etc. and in turn keeping the right rhythm in the pieces we are working on.

I know it will all come together - just have to keep at it till it sinks in.

My guess is that I'm not alone in this counting/rhythm puzzle.

smile confused

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1066636 - 07/10/08 04:41 PM Re: counting, rhythm, fractions  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 103
Jacob777 Offline
Full Member
Jacob777  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 103
You are not alone smile
For me, though, since I read the advice in this thread http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/32/6762.html my sense of time and rhythm has improved tremendously and I can honestly say that this has been the single most important factor in my overall improvement in the last 6 months. So I definitely think it would be worth your while to invest the time and energy to improve in this area.

#1066637 - 07/10/08 06:20 PM Re: counting, rhythm, fractions  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 213
jjtpiano Offline
Full Member
jjtpiano  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 213
Jamestown, NC
I like to think in terms of the pulse.

If you're in a quarter note pulse, eights divide the pulse into 2 equal parts, triplets divide the pulse into three equal parts and sixteenths divide the pulse into four equal parts.


Live Music Is Best
#1066638 - 07/10/08 07:02 PM Re: counting, rhythm, fractions  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member
ProdigalPianist  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
Phoenix Metro, AZ
Like math, lots of people have trouble with rhythm/counting (like me!), and, like math, there are a zillion ways to explain/conceptualize this stuff...so you just have to keep asking questions about what in particular you're having difficulty with, and eventually someone will explain it, or a lightbulb will come on, and you'll get it.

It's not really that difficult, once you get a handle on it. But it's getting the right handle that can sometimes take a while wink

Like math - I firmly believe that the main problem with math is that it tends to be taught by people who find math easy!! wink

You're on the right track. Think of each measure like a whole pie. The time signature tells you how many pieces you can divide it into. The notes tell you how to further subdivide each piece.

I would definitely learn this stuff away from the piano first, in order to understand its organizational structure. And that I would do in 2 different ways:

One, to learn the basic structure (ie the 'pyramid' of notes...ie in 4/4 time 1 whole note = 2 half notes = 4 quarter notes = 8 8th notes etc...), and to be able to work it out on paper, do rhythm worksheets where you fill in the missing note, etc.1

Two, to apply what you learned...clap rhythms while counting out loud, etc.

THEN put it all together with notes at the piano.


Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1066639 - 07/10/08 07:16 PM Re: counting, rhythm, fractions  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,411
packa Offline
1000 Post Club Member
packa  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,411
Dallas, TX
Learning the notation and organizational principles is certainly first. But you also have to learn to feel it at the keyboard.

A metronome is invaluable for dealing with many rhythm problems: even triplets, alternating between triplet and eighth notes in the same measure, polyrhythms (like 2-against-3), giving long notes and rests their proper values, etc.


Paul Buchanan
Estonia L168 #1718
#1066640 - 07/10/08 07:57 PM Re: counting, rhythm, fractions  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member
DragonPianoPlayer  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,462
Denver, CO
I have

Play at first Sight
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store...amp;cm_re=289.1.4-_-Results+Item-_-Title

and
Sight Read any Rhythm Instantly
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store...amp;cm_re=289.1.4-_-Results+Item-_-Title


both of which seem to be very useful for learning rhythms. (I have not worked through both of them.)

I also found this book to have a very interesting approach (even though it is for band):
The Simple Rhythmatician
http://www.kjos.com/sub_section.php?division=1&series=222

The first two books focus on feeling the patterns and pulses instead of detailed counting. The last book as a link to an introduction section that will explain it's approach.

Rich


[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
#1066641 - 07/10/08 08:09 PM Re: counting, rhythm, fractions  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member
ProdigalPianist  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
Phoenix Metro, AZ
I am pretty firm in the belief that one of the reasons so many people say they "have trouble" with counting/rhythms is that it is not taught as a seperate skill...and it should be.

Especially as beginners, people think the notes are more important than the rhythms, and when the music gets more difficult, will concentrate on the notes more than getting the rhythms right.

It's really too much to ask for many beginners and relative beginners to be learning to count out/play rhythms *only* at the piano. Teach it as a seperate skill, away from the piano, get people confident that they can read/play rhythms correctly, then combine and learn it at the keyboard as well.

It gets to be overwhelming otherwise.


Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.
#1066642 - 07/11/08 08:14 AM Re: counting, rhythm, fractions  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
musdan Offline
1000 Post Club Member
musdan  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
Many thanks for all your helpful suggestions.


Guess it's back to the drawing board.
smile


Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
A Specific C2 Question
by Kindgrind. 06/25/17 09:00 PM
First Public Appearence
by Qazsedcft. 06/25/17 07:43 PM
For Gould geeks.....
by bennevis. 06/25/17 04:56 PM
What pieces to play next?
by Erin Xu. 06/25/17 03:44 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,453
Posts2,639,020
Members88,184
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0