Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
My Keyboards: Estonia L-190, Roland RD88, Yamaha P-80, Bilhorn Telescope Organ c 1880, Antique Pump Organ, 1850 concertina, 3 other digital pianos ------------------------- My original piece on BandCamp: https://frankbaxtermrpianoworld.bandcamp.com/releases
Me banging out some tunes in the Estonia piano booth at the NAMM show...
Great thread and thanks for the "Beginners Forum" Frank! I'm sort of an oddity, I think. I have never taken a single lesson. Just started teaching myself about 2 years ago and went right to the pieces I wanted to play. I've struggled a bit but have really enjoyed it. I'm currently working on Bach fugue no. 2 book one WTC. I keep telling my wife that I really do need to take lessons at some point. Recently a patient came into the ER and as I was stitching up her kid we started chatting. She has the last name of a famous pianist and I asked if she realized that. Not only did she realize it but she was also a piano teacher. She has not taught for a couple of years since her children came along. I was surprised when she offered to give me lessons, FOR FREE! She said she always gave free lessons to adults because it ended up generating more business when they end up bringing their kids in for lessons. She said that she is very excited about the possibility of giving me lessons. BTW, do you all think this is appropriate? The first thing my wife asked when I told her was, "Is she pretty?" Of course I said, "NO!" but to tell you the truth, she is very attractive. What the heck should I do? Thanks for any input...
While one who sings with his tongue on fire Gargles in the rat race choir Bent out of shape from society's pliers Cares not to come up any higher But rather get you down in the hole That he's in.
Originally posted by johnmoonlight: ...I'm sort of an oddity, I think. I have never taken a single lesson. Just started teaching myself about 2 years ago and went right to the pieces I wanted to play. I've struggled a bit but have really enjoyed it...
We're in the the same boat. I sometimes think it's that upturned lifeboat that floated off the Titanic at the end, but...
I bought my first new piano about 25 years ago, and for about a year I worked hard as time permitted, teaching myself. But time rarely permitted. When I quit my busy job 2 years ago, I immediately bought the Chickering concert grand (along with a digital and another small grand and sold the upright) and got serious about the effort now that I have the time, so I'm really at the two-year point myself.
Like John, I went straight to the pieces I want to play. (The first piece I tackled 25 years ago was Lecuona's original "Malaguena", which I realize was rather insane, but I actually did learn a lot from it and finally now can get throught it all quite well.) When I resumed 2 years ago, I picked back up with that piece, LVB Op. 27,2 (all movements--my most refined piece and which none of my neighbors ever want to hear again) and some of LVB's shorter works, DeBussy's "Suite Bergmanesque" and "Reverie", Satie's Gymnopoedies and Gnossiennes (favorite learning ground), some Schubert short stuff like "Standchen", a few Chopin preludes (including "that ugly one"), three tough old heavily synchopated Latin showpieces, lots of old standards, recently some Gottschalk, and most fun of all, lately a bit of original composition which I've had the discipline to notate in Finale. I'm having fun every single day, even as some aspects on some days can be frustrating. But some days I know I've made incredible progress (it helps to do piano and nothing but all day and everyday as much as possible and in that, I am very fortunate to have been able to make that time at this stage of life).
I am now pleased with the consistency of my most polished pieces, now played perhaps a thousand times each and practiced bar by bar far more. I'm a tough critic, but have to admit today's 27,2 consciously amazed even me (first time I felt that, though I know I've done it truly well perhaps twice otherwise). I've finally learned to manage the subtleties and complexities of voicing very predictably with lots of subtle gradation in tone/volume and have a good handle on ebb and flow through them and they've very nearly stopped being conscious work, so much so I become almost listener rather than player. And I realize I'd never have achieved those subtleties without having bought a truly good piano.
But where I see myself right now is having just established a good foundation, sort of being in a place now where I really can learn more quickly (and that I am learning more quickly is such a relief as I tackle some of Gottschalk's difficult stuff). I've learned lots of technique among the 100 or so pieces I play, and practice them in groups with a specific technical skill as the focus for the day each day. I have books on theory and read them in bed at night when I'm not studying scores, usually leaving one under the pillow for quick access, if not the dim hope of osmosis. So I see myself as really just at the end of the beginning, but with some of the skills I need to move forward.
I just discovered today that the 18-year-old kid across the street has been taking lessons and playing for two years. We decided it will be nice to have someone at a similar point along the path to talk to. (I had wondered why my old tech showed up over there but never remembered to ask them or the tech till today--I'd never seen a piano, but there house is rambling huge.)
I record my practice regularly for a more objective listen after, making notes during playback. Sometimes the recordings surprise me when I notice something I'm doing very well even while I'm noticing areas for improvement. I have a good ear and I know what's right or wrong when I hear it. And if it's wrong, I'll find a way to make it right.
My happiest day a couple of months ago was when a neighbor asked me what CD I'd been playing that morning, saying "It was great!" And I was able to say that was me, live. (And that neighbor is a PhD piano/cello player.) So I am happy with progress as a self-taught player. I think it can be done. That doesn't mean I won't hire a teacher at some point. Maybe at 50. But that would spoil my goal to be the first barefoot self-taught 70-year-old to debut at Carnegie Hall. I just can't play with shoes on. I can't gauge the subtle amount of pedal with shoes on (and I do use them very judiciously, and all three, sometimes at the same time. I wish I had my avatar's feet. ). Being tall, shoes add just enough height to interfere with my favored postion and cause my knees to rub the keybed (thinking about getting much larger castors).
I frequently play in just boxers and a tee. (I'll make sure I have on my best ones if I ever attend a P.W. party and find I just can't play dressed otherwise.) I have to have all my pockets empty. Anything in them just throws me off. And no tight sleeves.
So you could graduate into that habit at home, John, practicing in your boxers, so if your wife catches you that way at your lessons, you can say you just can't play with all those clothes on.
I am absolutely amazed that anyone can teach themselves using difficult pieces as a starting point. I think my head would have exploded had I tried it! Heck, there have been many times when I did think my head would explode. I had a very difficult time building independence of the hands.
John, that offer of free lessons is interesting. If money is an issue, I'd say go for it.
If money isn't an issue, though, then I'd be a bit wary. Kind of how I'd be wary if a doctor offered to treat me for free or a lawyer wished to take my case for free as a means of drumming up business. My experience in searching for a teacher is that some of the best ones have a full schedule, and it is hard to wrangle your way into their studio at all.
The way I found my teacher, FWIW, was by calling the parents of my kids' friends, asking them if they knew any piano teachers. This led me to a parent I knew casually, who had two kids taking lessons (one seriously enough to seek admission to conservatory). I liked the way she described the studio of this husband-and-wife teaching duo -- and she seemed to know a lot about what types of teachers to avoid. We've been with the husband-and-wife studio ever since, but getting the benefit of the husband's instruction for recitals, rehearsals and monthly group classes.
Anyway, I have an opinion about whether it would be beneficial to take lessons, even if you are progressing brilliantly like you are. I have found that having a teacher has helped quite a lot in actually getting certain things right. Even though I read well and have a good sense of rhythm, I will still make errors that my teacher will catch. Also, both teachers are fanatics about fingering, frequently altering the suggested fingering in a piece for one reason or another. They frequently disagree about appropriate pedaling, and they've been able to show me techniques for certain skills -- most recently trying to teach me to almost shake my wrist during a fast trill rather than push each key down independently.
Anyway, if you decide to hire a teacher, I'd take the time to find the right one. You'll be with him/her for a looooooong time!
Cindy -- chuckling at the image of Chickgrand in his altogether making beautiful music at the piano, but who totally understands the bit about the shoes
I know what you mean about playing barefoot. We don't wear shoes in the house (Japanese & Hawaiian style) so I practice barefoot. I also usually wear shorts and a comfortable loose top/t-shirt while at home, so when I go to my lesson, put on my jeans, a nice top, and shoes, it's feels so odd. Maybe that's another reason I don't perform my pieces as well for my teacher as I do at home!
There are teachers out there who go to the student's home for lessons, so maybe you could find one of those.
That's great that you've progressed so far on your own!
Chick, enjoyed your story! In my case I went straight to Moonlight sonata first movement. And I was hooked. I figured that if I'm this passionate about a piece, I must be able to play it. Well it was at least partially true. I felt as though I knew exactly how it SHOULD sound which seemed to make it a bit easier. So now I just look for pieces that I'm passionate about AND that aren't too difficult. Cindy, thanks for the advice. I don't know what to think of her offer. Money is not an issue. We just seemed to click...maybe that's where the problem is. Damn, I think I'm attracted to her. Ok, so it's NOT a good idea to take lessons with her...is that what you're thinking? But she has such a nice body(she's a near world class swimmer) and a great smile...I can see I'm digging myself a hole here...nevermind. Forget I asked.
While one who sings with his tongue on fire Gargles in the rat race choir Bent out of shape from society's pliers Cares not to come up any higher But rather get you down in the hole That he's in.
Speaking of 'Moonlight'... How difficult is it? I've never actually tried it, but doesn't seem that difficult. I've been playing for about 5-6 months... Will I be able to play it?
I don't know what level you're at, but I think it's a bit more difficult than it sounds. I've had 2-3 yrs of lessons and I had trouble with it. Of course, everyone is different.
"Applaud friends, the comedy is over." --Ludwig van Beethoven on his deathbed. August Förster 190 Artcase
I think it might depend on the size of your hands, actually. I have been taking lessons for five years, and I had a go at "Moonlight Sonata." I got through the first page OK and then bailed out because the stretches were ninths and they really bothered my hands.
It is harder than it looks, IMHO. Worth it, though.
Good luck!
Cindy -- who is *stoked* because she is off to lesson in which she'll receive two new Schumann pieces to start on
I've been really enjoying this thread and reading everyone's experiences!
My first experience learning the piano happened when I was about 5 years old. My mom was trying to teach me what a semibreve looked like. "It looks just like a potato", she said. "But I don't WANT it to look like a potato!" I said, and threw a tantrum. I screwed up the piece of paper that the offending semibreve was drawn on and threw it on the floor. And that was the end of my childhood association with the piano. I did however play the violin, which I loathed. I also dabbled with the guitar as a teenager, so when I finally did take up the piano I had a small amount of musical knowledge.
I started playing six years ago when I was 31. I really wanted to learn to play but did not see how I could as I lived in a tiny one-room flat with neighbours on all sides. Then one day I woke up and the answer plopped into my head. A digital piano! Earphones! That very same week I bought a Yamaha P200, the most expensive thing I'd ever bought and my pride and joy. Since then I've been very fortunate: My business has improved and I've been able to buy a "proper" piano and move to a house with enough space to accommodate it.
Johnmoonlight and Chickgrand - I think it's great you're teaching yourselves. I've always preferred teaching myself to being taught, although with regard to piano I did decide to get a teacher. As a late starter I wanted to learn quickly and I thought I would learn more quickly if I had a teacher than if I had to discover it all myself. But in hindsight I think the teachers I had hindered my progress more than they helped it. I always get nervous when people jump in and say "you must get a teacher or you'll get bad habits" because in my experience teachers can instill as many bad habits as they prevent. And - one teacher's bad habit is another's preferred technique!
That said, I have a great teacher now. When I was with my previous teacher there was a trill I couldn't play. "In time you'll be able to play it" my teacher said. There was a piece I had practised and practised and thought I knew really well, but every time I played it I would randomly stop. She told me to "keep practising and in time you'll be able to play it".
My current teacher commented that "in time" we'd be in the grave! That trill I couldn't do? He watched my hand, told me the trill wasn't working because one of my fingers wasn't working, made up a quick exercise for getting the non-working finger to work and within minutes I was playing the trill! The piece that was getting stuck? He made me learn it hands separate (neither of my other teachers had been fans of hands separate) and he made me learn where each note / chord *had come from* as well as where it was going to. It was an amazing awakening - I realised that I actually didn't know the piece at all. No wonder I was getting stuck!
I see my current teacher perhaps five times a year and work by myself the rest of the time. I find this better than the weekly lessons I was having before, partly because I like working by myself and partly because I found a week was too short a time for me to be ready for another lesson.
Right now I'm working on Scriabin's Etude Op.2 no.1. I've seen it described on this forum as "easy" but I'm finding it really hard! I guess it depends what level you're viewing it from. Also Rachmaninov's Prelude Op.3 no.2. Yes, THAT prelude. Sorry, but I love it. Also prelude no 6 out of WTK book 1 "to get my fingers moving". And Scarlatti's sonata K141 which I love.
I took lessons from 8 to 10. I must have been pretty good because I won a city wide competition and played Rhondo alla Turca. I missed the last note or chord, but everyone clapped wildly. My mother had me quit to take organ lessons which I hated so I quit studying all together...
I started playing again after college. I bought a piano for 350.00. I read a biography of Chopin and it said that he wrote the Etudes to teach his students, so I decided to learn the etudes, and started practicing... I loved it. I would practice till my fingers fell off if I could. I am busy with business support and as a mom now, but I just bought a piano and soon I'll start looking for a teacher. I have only polished-learned 3 etudes completely. I have a host of pieces I would love to perfect with someone's guidance. I've yet to find someone I can click with..
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
Gee Frank thanks so much for our own forum, what a wonderful idea. I know I've told my story before but I guess I can do it one more time. I don't know if you would call me an adult beginner; I'm more of a "retread" as someone in an earlier thread coined it. I begged my parents for lessons and finally around 5th or 6th grade they finally caved and I hung with it through Jr High until I got into my brain-damaged teenage years and quit lessons. Even though I quit I continued to kind of fiddle whenever the mood hit off and on into present day. I had lots of popular music that I would pick up from time to time and try to bang out on my old Acrosonic. It wasn't until my middle son started lessons (a little over a year ago) that I started thinking about getting back into learning mode and taking lessons too. We both started with a wonderful teacher from our church and shopped around for a new piano. I am so glad that I'm back. It makes such a difference having a teacher (for me it keeps me focused on goals and successes - instead of just fiddling with the same songs indefinitely). She is able to point things out that I don't hear until then (of course then it's how did I miss that). I have really rediscovered my love of piano and I am discovering so much classical music I never looked at before. I find myself constantly looking for pockets of time to practice and manage to get in at least 1.5 - 2 hrs per day. I find myself using piano to try new experiences - like getting over my shyness and fear of performing in front of people. (That should help with public speaking too - right? Like if the ground didn't open up and swallow me and I didn't keel over and die playing piano, surely I should be able to just talk in front of others )
I really love the idea of taking special requests from/for my mom. In a little less than 2 weeks I will be playing a prelude set at my sister's wedding - no pressure there (not) but at least it's family and I think the rules say they still have to love me even if I screw up. Anyway my mantra is "its only the prelude - no one will even be paying attention."
Apple - I think finding someone you click with enhances what you gain from the teaching experience and that's what I've found with my teacher. She is fantastic with my son as well, really has a way with children (I hope that's not why we click). It's funny I will go and buy some music and bring it to my lesson and either she will have the same thing she was planning on starting with me or she will say that is exactly the type of thing I wanted you to try next, we really are on the same wavelength.
Anyway I look forward to sharing experiences here and learning from all the other beginner's and retreads out there.
Originally posted by Cindysphinx: I have a question, Alex. Are these arrangements or are you doing the original works? I ask because Mozart's Turkish Rondo is screamin' hard, and I can't imagine playing it after 5 years, let alone after 5 months.
Dang. You guys are inspiring me. I'm going to have to really get after it!
Cindy - you have a pretty impressive repertoire.
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
I am 24 years old and is a retread too! Showed signs of interest on an electronic keyboard when I was about 5 years old and my papa brought me to lessons at the local community centre 2 years later. Big mistake. It's cheap no doubt, but most of the lessons offered in community centres are more geared towards recreational purposes. Not much structure within the lessons and from what I remembered, I was only told to play the pieces on my book without any useful guidance. I wasn't even taught scales. Without them, I couldn't understand the rationale behind the key signature. It was such a torture in those days. To make matters worse, I can only practise on a keyboard as my father wasn't sure whether a piano is necessary and also whether I will be playing in a few years. As expected, I gave up lessons after 2 years or so without getting anywhere.
It was until about 2 years ago when I got inspired by my friend. He's 3 years younger than me and is already a rather well accomplished pianist. I thought to myself then, "I could have been him".
Messed around with the keyboard for a year before deciding it's time to get serious. I don't want to make another mistake again! Got myself a piano last year before taking up private lessons from my another friend's teacher. Have never look back. MY first lesson was such a humbling experience. We were clapping our hands and playing pieces like "When the saints go marching in" from the Bastien Adult Piano Course. Looking back now, just what a year this has been!
It's so nice to have our own forum. I hope we can hear from more people and keep our little corner alive! Thank you Frank for making this happen!
I'm 53 years old and have been learning piano for almost 5 years, though I'm not an absolute beginner having played violin (and later viola) since the age of 8. I studied music in college for a couple of years and then decided I wasn't cut out for all that practicing and changed my major.
Over the years I occasionally wished I could play the piano - to stand in as a rehearsal pianist, to play chamber music, and to accompany my church choir and play hymns. In 1999 I bought a piano and asked our church music director if she would take me on as a student. It has been a wonderful, eye-opening (ear-opening?) experience.
It was frustrating at first to be a beginner on one instrument when I was already competent on another, but I enjoy playing the piano and enjoy practicing the piano; practicing the viola was always a chore. Two years ago, I quit playing the orchestra I'd been in for over 20 years in order to have more time to practice the piano. I'm still playing the viola in a couple of musical theater groups and in a string quartet, but 95% of my musical energy goes to the piano.
My teacher is wonderful. She is exacting without being mean about it. She is teaching me to be musical (I didn't know that could be taught!) And she has a real knack for choosing suitable pieces for me to work on - they are challenging and beautiful.
At the most recent student recital I played the B-flat two-part invention and a Chopin mazurka. It's a long way to the Dvorak quintet, but I'm really enjoying the journey.
Even though the "Adult beginners" forum doesn't show on main forum page, I WAS able to recall this thread from my Favorites, which is nice to know. (that urls saved from the old forum connect correctly to the new forum)
Just thought i'd shake this tree to see what happened to it.
.jpg)
). Being tall, shoes add just enough height to interfere with my favored postion and cause my knees to rub the keybed (thinking about getting much larger castors). 
