Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Negative stereotypes associated with classical music/players.

Betty,

Protect it from what???? From going by the wayside? Let it go already, it's suppose to diminish and fall away like anything else outdated. Out with the old, in with the new!

I am very sad also, Betty. I am sad because so many, many people (for whatever reason) are missing out on one of the most joyous and deeply moving experiences available to us as mortals.

To listen to music so exquisitely beautiful that you are almost brought to your knees with tears. Over and over and over again. It never ceases to lift your soul and fill your heart. Can a sob be an indication that something is just more than we can bear? If it is, than classical music can bring on those sobs also. I will admit that I feel the closest to my maker when I listen to my music. (I don't mean to offend anyone by this statement.)

And I am so very sad that most people will never know this because of some preconceived notions or ideas, which are mainly based on fear just as all such notions are. Fear of what? I really don't know. Fear of the unknown? Again, I really have not been able to figure it out.

Some say it boring, and it might be to them. But in many cases, it is because our society has become one of instant gratification. Classical music doesn't provide this. You have to do some searching to discover its wonders. Often you might have to listen to it as much as twice!

But I don't fear for the future of classical music though, gosh... it's lasted this long. I don't fear because I do believe that many, not all, but many will seek to find somethiing more, just as we seek to find new meaning in our lives as we get older (not old, exactly, just older). We often cast away that which is faddish, for we tired of it eventually (that's why it's a fad). Just as we learn that it's not the material things in life that bring us true and meaningful happiness, we learn that we do possess a soul that needs nourishment and nourishment that is fulfilling and lasting.

Many of us will find this in classical music. Enough to keep it going. And all those young people who are taking lessons, some will continue and out of those, a few will become great musicians. There are so many individuals, organizations, societies and competitions, etc., whose only goal is to keep it alive for the future. So I am hopeful, very hopeful.

I just wish it didn't take some so long to realize what they are missing.

Thank you, gmm1. And I think I strayed from the original topic. Sorry.

Regards to all, even MarKey...who I hope is very, very young because if his/her beliefs come to pass, his/her days are very, very numbered!

Kathleen

Um...my days are numbered?

Actually, it's not me that so sad. I think classical music days are truly numbered and I do feel for you folks that are watching it fade into the abyss. Sorry...

There's plenty of reason to be hopeful. I can report to you that while it's no secret that my generation is mostly into rock and rap, etc, there are also plenty of people who appreciate this wonderful music and will continue it. In fact, step into any conservatory and you'll see that they are just as passionate as anyone else in history about the music. As long as quality music, literature, art, philosophy, whatever, exists, there will always be people to fully understand and appreciate it.

Don't be sad, Kathleen and Betty. Don't let others frame the debate or try to change objective reality for you. This "inevitable progress" nonsense is being exposed here.

There is a REASON antiques carry more worth.

There is a REASON many people prefer older automobiles.

There is a REASON many people prefer, and will continue to prefer, older music.

Newer ain't always better folks! Usually, in fact, it is not - at least recently. Manufactured goods today are often of a poor quality: plastic replaces metal and wood. Many companies aren't necessarily work for what's best for the consumer. They are working with their prioity being profits. They are too short-sighted to see, as companies like Steinway and Sons have, that quality builds reputation, which translates to longterm success. This reflects a more general change in ethics over the years. "What's in it for me? What can you do for ME?" (Recall JFK's famous and wise words "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.") And that, in turn, is a simple artifact of a shift toward the "anything goes" worldview MarKey would have have us all embrace if she had her way.

I wonder, moreover, if she realizes that her constant disruption on this forum - in effect insulting those who do not share her views - actually leaves a rather sour taste in our collective mouth about whatever ideas she is championing. We've done nothing to her to deserve this.

Fortunately, only a simpleton with little reasoning capacity takes the unnuanced Neanderthal view "New good, old bad." Mature human beings are able to see nuance, and moreover pick out the good from each area - both new and old.

Classical music needs no one to prop it up. This group and that band will come and go as the decades pass by, but the classics stand on their own merit, rooted in the seedbed of a better and more noble time. Classical music will continue to plod along through the future with a small but faithful following. That point is demonstrated anecdotally by the vibrant community here on PianoWorld. There is nothing for any of us to do but to enjoy it, and yes, to play it!

A wise person seeks to learn from history; a fool, however, throws it out and is doomed to repeat it. Believe it or not, music from different periods teaches us a great deal - without words - about not only the tastes but about the deeper values and ideals cherished in generations past. We would be wise to learn from that, and preserve what is good therein.

I'd say, enjoy what you like and allow others to enjoy what they like, without judgement. Don't worry about what others think. It doesn't matter.

That's so very true.

Hey, even this rock artist plays classical music, and he plays pretty darn well, I must say.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=e9NrQzJCWW8

I am wondering if his fans say classical music is boring.

Well said, Akira!

FWIW I've come to appreciate Einaudi from Mr. S-H and Monica Kern. No, he's still not my favorite - not who I am! - but I have a new appreciation I would not otherwise have. I did so because of Monica's positive and always helpful attitude, and Mr. S-H's infectious humor and enthusiasm. Because of them, I have a positive association with his music.

If they had both constantly bashed music I and Kathleen and Betty and Sotto Voce and Peyton and countless other friends here appreciate, I would probably hate Einaudi by now. But they didn't!

Kudos to them both!

I dare say not - esp. those fans of a female persuasion

LisztAddict, this rockstar really is hot

I think I will be a little on the side of this topic now, but there are some thoughts I like to share.

Every month I go to my local library to read the English Grammophone magazine. I admit that it is heavy reading for a not native English speaker, but still I do catch a lot of information abot cds, festivals etc.
But then of course I also read about these upcoming sopranos - with glossy pictures, so talented and beautiful and succesful.
And I watch the pianists and violinists inviting eachother on their chamber music festivals,-who's "in" at the moment ?
I know it's mostly not glamorous at all - endless hours practicing, personal sacrifice and life spent in airports , but still I can't help it, I am jealous

So for us that was not prodigies, our hands were too small, our voices too weak, our fathers did not have the right connections to find the best teachers, classical music was a world that you could watch, and applaude, but sign said "no entrance".

There were some years that I could not stand classical music because the only thing it did to me was reminding me of being a failure.
Luckily I have grown older and wiser and I can see that the music is so precious itself and gives me so much joy that I don't have to waste time on the negative sides.

But nobody can tell me that the classical world does not have elements of elitism and snobbery.

Ragnhild

Dear Ragnhild:

I so commend you for doing what you do. Going to the library to read magazines that are not in your language. I can only imagine how difficult that must be. To read about those who have "made it," is, in many ways, a vicarious thrill. We can share in their glory, admire their talents and, like you (and me) feel envious that we don't or didn't have whatever it took to reach their status.

And, of course, we know (just because of our own experiences), how unbelievably difficult it was for them to reach that pinnacle and, more importantly, to stay there. Hours and hours and hours of practice, and yes, those lonely hotel rooms and crowded airports...sometimes not even knowing, when they wake, what city they are in. It is, as you say, a life of sacrifice and a life that, at the turn of a wrist or the break of a finger or hand, could end in a fraction of a second. And then, all is lost. So it is a very brave road they travel, also.

I agree with you that there are some in this field who most definitely think they are better than the rest of us. Snobbish, yes. Aloof and untouchable, definitely. Maybe it's because they have achieved what most of us can or have not. Who knows? But I have a feeling that people like this had the propensity for this type of behavior even before they were successful. And maybe they had a huge ego to start off with. It does take a rather large one to sit out there, all alone, on a huge stage, and perform to hundreds and even thousands, seeking their applause and approval. And, believing they deserve it. And...they do.

But I have also noticed this elitism in people in many other fields. Sports (yikes, with the millions they earn a year..to walk away from a young boy who has been waiting for hours for an autograph, or worse yet...selling their autographs), rock stars who have nothing but contempt for their fans. I once heard an actual voice recording of John Lenon in which he said (and I am paraphrasing) that his fans were mindless and stupid, to be pitied and dismissed. And yet, there are millions to this day, who regard him as almost a god. They have erected statues and commerated parks to his memory. Actors, who have achieved fame and money because of the "small people," but who refused interviews and shun any gathering of their fans.

I am not making any excuses for those snobs in the classical field. I am just saying that snobs are all over the place.

And (believe me) I know exactly what you are saying. Sometimes listening to or seeing a pianist perform does remind me that I am, in some ways, a failure. But more often, it inspires me to go home and practice more. So we can turn it around and make it a positive thing, as I hope many people do.

My best and my admiration,
Kathleen

I've never experienced this negative stereotype Strat and others are talking about. I don't know anybody that listens to classical music regularly but nobody I know makes fun of people who do.

My impression is that nearly everyone, young and old alike, at least respects classical music as a valid art form. Just last night I was reading an article about a - well, I don't even know what these folks are called.. something like programmer / remixer - anyway, a hip hop artist of some sort. He pointed out himself that he was a "classically trained pianist". This was to lend more credibility to his talents as a remix artist. How many times have I heard that about pop, rock, jazz, etc. artists - "Well, he was a classically trained player you know!". I've absolutely never heard that said as a disparagement.

There was a period of time when we championed our bravest and best. I watch Classic Arts Showcase frequently. It features videos of classical music, dance, film, and jazz. Many of the early features have been culled from TV programs that were the norm in the 50's and early to mid 60's. Bell telephone hour, Firestone presents, that sort of thing. This ended in the mid 60's when there began a notion that egalitarianism should be the norm, and everyone's opinion and talent was more or less equal. Prior to this period, classical music was largely for an elite class as it ALWAYS had been. The post-war period showed a genuine effort to elevate the masses. This was short-lived and replaced in time by the drivel that passes for entertainment today and music in general. Sinatra and Nat King Cole were before my time, or were popular when I was quite young.But one thing is certain, the standard for pop music was well-defined and elevated in comparison to the fare available today. The bottom line is that we are catering to the lowest common denominator, with no pretense to elevating anything. Of course the society is in decline.

Classical music is essentially going back to where it began. It will always appeal to the rich and cultured. All one need do is look at who underwrites a typical concert schedule. I live in Texas, so not surprisingly big-oil has a big stake in the arts, you know those "big evil oil companies". Decent sized businesses as well underwrite it. And there are of course rich patrons on an individual basis. I donate to the symphony and I buy season tickets. I believe that in time the audience will shrink and there will be less symphonies per state. It was this way back in the early part of the 20th century. It will likely stabilize again at some point. I have no shortage of piano students and colleges are still cranking out more musicians. What has to be understood is that it is those graduates that owe some allegiance to the propagation of the art both in time and fiscally as well.

Those that would laud its demise only show how easily threatened they are by having to stand in true arts shadow.

AND...Texas has a Chopin Society. Hurrah!!

Kathleen

A funny thing happened to me the other day (actually a few weeks ago). My 20 year old son, who has been a total punk music fanatic since he was 14, had a friend over to play "War Hammer". (Don't ask...just take my word that it's a very complicated table top war game that can take days to play.) I would walk by every now and then (they had it set up in the living room) and make bombing sounds etc. and at one point jokingly said they should at least have a music soundtrack going as it was so quite in there. A few minutes later my son went to his room and came back with a cd of Chopin etudes. Apparently the kid, while off at college has gotten totally into Chopin.

And there I was hoping for some Sex Pistols!

Now you need to get him a digital piano so he can start learning how to play.

He took lessons as a kid (played keyboard in the juniorhigh jazz band) and is really a very good reader but dropped the piano totally a number of years ago. I caught him playing a prelude on my piano not long ago. He's comin round...

As far as "sophistication" goes:

We all entered this world in the same way and spent the next several years *peeing* on ourselves . (Not very *sophisticated* to say the least).

Over time, most of us have come to make certain descisions that affect our lives while others may still be searching for answers.

"Country" music may not be viewed as *sophisticated*, especially with song titles like "I wanna check you for ticks", but then again, who said being *sophisticated* is agood thing?.

Case in point, I personally may have a lot more fun at a demolition derby, monster mud drags, or even a redneck hog calling contest at which people make absolute baphoons out of themselves but who cares?, it can be a lot of fun.

The worst thing anyone can do is try to pretend that they are something that the're not.
Noby likes a poser!.

If your heart really enjoys playing jazz or the blues, then by all means pursue that genre of music. Playing anything else just to impress or please others is doing nothing other than cheating yourself from what you really enjoy.

Come over to my house for lunch and I'll offer you up steamed salmon on a whole wheat baguette with grey poupon mustard on the side; or, you can have a peanut butter and jelly sandy on 3 day old bread and a ring ding for dessert (because I ran out of chips).

It's all good baby!. I won't judge you on what your musical tastes are, how much money you make, or even what you look like (hot chicks excluded for personal reasons! ).

Good, honest people never have to explain themselves because over time, someone's true colors will always shine through.

If you find yourself constantly having to expain yourself, your either doing something wrong or traveling with the wrong crowd.

Don't be a sheep!. If you can't be true to yourself, you'll just live your entire life as a lie, and well thats gotta suck!

No it isn't...... In modern times people can have access to all kinds of music and anyone can learn to play classical music if they want. Nobody I know who enjoys the music are rich and from the elite society. They (and I) simply appreciate the music. It's an insult to classical music to say that it is the art of the rich and elite. When I go and see the symphony, looking out of place, it is quite easily to distinguish who is there because they love music and who is there because they have to, since they are "high society".

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that really way back when, that classical music was not JUST for the elite class. Back in the time of Bach/Mozart/Beethoven that "classical" music was simply the predominate music of the time (err, pop music of it's day so to speak). And that while the elite certainly had access to more performances than the commoner, that as a musical genre in general that it wasn't simply for the elite.