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#1055082 - 09/05/06 08:32 PM If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Dear Members...If you were Mozart right now and heard someone play your very favorite piano composition that you composed yourself... not as you intended... but... with their own creative style...Would you be offended or pleased? Sandy B


Sandra M. Boletchek 08/02/06
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#1055083 - 09/05/06 09:10 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Mozart probably wouldn't mind. Chopin would be gritting his teeth.


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#1055084 - 09/06/06 10:29 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Frycek:

Remember when one of Chopin's students was playing a certain Chopin composition.

When the student finished, Chopin said something like: "Well, I wouldn't have played it that way, but you should play it as you feel it."

This one sentence is the only thing that keeps me going when learning/playing Chopin. I don't always pay attention to the tempo, or the other markings. But I do play attention to how I sense the music should sound...to that inner voice. smile

Yeah, Chopin probably wouldn't be too happy about it. But I hope he will understand and not throw anything at me. eek

As far as Mozart... I couldn't care less. wink

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1055085 - 09/06/06 10:46 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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I would hope that any genius would appreciate any attempt by a novice to understand music beyond his/her abilities or talent. They may point out areas where the student is missing the musical point, but I think everyone, including genuises, would accept and enjoy the efforts of others to reach and broaden understanding.

Now, those who play with authority and arrogance, all bets are off. To say "this is my best effort" is much different than "this is how it should be". I fear there would be no tolerance with those who profess to know.

I believe most composers would say "take this and make it your own, but remember, it is mine in the end".


"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro
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#1055086 - 09/06/06 11:05 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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I find it really interesting how the music world seems to have a double standard when it comes to this issue. In the realm of, what might be called, "non serious" music, it is actually a tribute to the original composer to perform their composition in a way never even imagined by them. A great example would be Joe Cocker's version of the Beatles "A Little Help from My Friends". How many people have performed Burt Bacharach's music over the years in totally different styles. Jazz Albums abound around Christmas time with "jazzed up" versions of the holiday classics by people like Dave Grusin and Kenny G. In all these examples, all the praise is heaped upon the performer for their "genius" and originality of interpretation. So why so diifferent with Classical music, might I ask? Are the Beatles any less geniuses, in their own realm, as Mozart was in his? If not, why is it an afront to one and not the other? Understand here, I AM NOT, trying to compare popular music to classical in any other way than how it relates to this particular subject. Maybe the answer lies in the number of tighta**es and snobs that pervade one over the other? Just a provoking thought on my part.


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#1055087 - 09/06/06 11:14 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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i dont know mozart, but changing a style of a song lets say taking classical and turning it into jazz i think is wrong. the composer wrote it one way, and yes that song can be played and defined in many ways and played as you define it, BUT to change a songs style to another style i think is an abhoration(is that a word). i dont know the great classical artists well enough from reading what i have so far. if someone feels they need to change it to jazz to experience their artistic creative side, why dont they just create their own jazz song, and not chop up someone elses piece. i did play fur elise boogie and quickly threw it out as it wasnt art form, it lost something in the transformation that should have been there. so i believe you play a song or piece as you percieve it to be and with your own musical touch, but to change the style of it, not for me.


If it ain't fun I ain't doin' it:)
#1055088 - 09/06/06 11:15 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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I'm guessing it probably depends on the composer. Who's to say. But in those days didn't many composers, Mozart included, add a cadenza for the performer to "jam" on? That to me would imply a certain looseness concerning interpretation.

As far as Chopin goes, there is that famous quote about Liszt playing one of Chopin's Etudes. Chopin loved the way he did it implying that it was better than he could do. That certainly opens the door for allowing other's interpretations of Chopin's music.


"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
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#1055089 - 09/06/06 12:01 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Quote
Kenny G
That is assuming you consider anything there to be actual "music"....


-Mak

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#1055090 - 09/06/06 12:02 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Funburger,
I am definitely not advocating playing classical music as jazz, but, rather, an acceptance of a certain degree of deviation from the original timing or flow, say, adding rubato where there is no call for it in the score, as an example.


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#1055091 - 09/06/06 12:11 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Hey if Mozart or Chopin or Beethoven didn't want us to deviate from the original they should've recorded their pieces...... smile

Peter has left the building......


Peter


Ok..Ok... If you don't want your Steinway give it to me !!!!
#1055092 - 09/06/06 12:17 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Heck, I'd be pleased if anyone played anything musically I created in any style they want. I'd be flattered.

#1055093 - 09/06/06 12:20 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Mozart, like other composers, wrote variations on other people's works. Why would they not expect others to do that to their music?


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#1055094 - 09/06/06 12:37 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Thank all of you so much for all your posts...I learn from all of you...I would love to hear some of you play...I have no speakers now for several months...Hopefully soon..Grandma Sandy B


Sandra M. Boletchek 08/02/06
#1055095 - 09/06/06 12:43 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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If you check out the "Let's Ask David Nevue a Lot of Questions" thread, you'll see that somebody asked him that very question: How does it make him feel to hear others perform his work? His reply, as I recall, was very politely phrased but indicated that it took him off guard, because people inevitably play it differently than he does, and he has a template in his mind regarding how it's supposed to sound...

But in the final analysis, musicians want their work to be heard and performed, so at least on one level I imagine it would make them feel good... or at least better than the alternative of nobody performing it at all. wink


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#1055096 - 09/06/06 01:04 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Quote
Originally posted by rockpeter:
Hey if Mozart or Chopin or Beethoven didn't want us to deviate from the original they should've recorded their pieces...... smile

Peter has left the building......


Peter
Damn right!! laugh


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#1055097 - 09/06/06 01:41 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Peyton:

As far as Chopin goes, there is that famous quote about Liszt playing one of Chopin's Etudes. Chopin loved the way he did it implying that it was better than he could do. That certainly opens the door for allowing other's interpretations of Chopin's music.
Then there's the other famous quote, Chopin to Lizst, something to the effect of, "if you're going to play it, play it the way I wrote it."


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#1055098 - 09/06/06 01:46 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Frycek:
Quote
Originally posted by Peyton:
[b]
As far as Chopin goes, there is that famous quote about Liszt playing one of Chopin's Etudes. Chopin loved the way he did it implying that it was better than he could do. That certainly opens the door for allowing other's interpretations of Chopin's music.
Then there's the other famous quote, Chopin to Lizst, something to the effect of, "if you're going to play it, play it the way I wrote it." [/b]
Well gosh, he should have just made up his mind! laugh


"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
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#1055099 - 09/06/06 01:50 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Quote
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:
Frycek:

Remember when one of Chopin's students was playing a certain Chopin composition.

When the student finished, Chopin said something like: "Well, I wouldn't have played it that way, but you should play it as you feel it."

This one sentence is the only thing that keeps me going when learning/playing Chopin. I don't
always pay attention to the tempo, or the other markings. But I do play attention to how I sense the music should sound...to that inner voice. smile

Yeah, Chopin probably wouldn't be too happy about it. But I hope he will understand and not throw anything at me. eek

As far as Mozart... I couldn't care less. wink

Kathleen
I have a feeling most of Chopin's irritation at having his pieces messed about with was directed at virtuosi in concert who were trying to put their marks on his compositions. I imagine that toward a kindred spirit playing from the heart he would've been more indulgent.


Slow down and do it right.
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#1055100 - 09/06/06 01:53 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Peyton:
Quote
Originally posted by Frycek:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by Peyton:
[b]
As far as Chopin goes, there is that famous quote about Liszt playing one of Chopin's Etudes. Chopin loved the way he did it implying that it was better than he could do. That certainly opens the door for allowing other's interpretations of Chopin's music.
Then there's the other famous quote, Chopin to Lizst, something to the effect of, "if you're going to play it, play it the way I wrote it." [/b]
Well gosh, he should have just made up his mind! laugh [/b]
When Chopin praised Liszt he was admiring his technique but he got irritated at Liszt when he started to embellish one of them during a salon performance.


Slow down and do it right.
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#1055101 - 09/06/06 02:21 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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if i were Mozart, i would mind if someone else changes my genius composition into craps. of course, i would mind.

if you change a Mozart's composition by creating your own, i.e. using Mozart's theme but adding your own variations, then it doesn't matter because it's your composition not Mozart's. you can do all your creative composing as you want, but just don't call it as if it's still Mozart's but call it your own arrangement, or transcription or your improvisation.

#1055102 - 09/06/06 02:25 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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signa, you said it like a pro:) thumb

that is exactly what my teacher said!!!!


If it ain't fun I ain't doin' it:)
#1055103 - 09/06/06 02:29 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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oh, thanks, and i think we're in agreement on this!

#1055104 - 09/06/06 02:34 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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- Firstly, both Mozart and Chopin would probably be thrilled that their music is still being played 200+ and 150+ respectively - years after it was written.

- Secondly, as far as Chopin criticizing Liszt and others for their interpretation of his music: we don't really know what liberties they were taking with his music, so we don't know what he was criticizing.

- Also, the "stylistic" playing of piano music in Mozart's time is very different than the playing today - from articulation, pedalling, improvisation, etc.

#1055105 - 09/06/06 02:39 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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if I were Mozart, i would indeed be pleased.

as to the question, i'd be delighted to hear anyone play upon my pieces, even a child just learning.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#1055106 - 09/06/06 02:54 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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I can only imagine this...

but if the classical composers only knew that their music was so loved and treasured that it is still being played by thousands of artists over 200 years later, around the world, to packed audiences...

That, to me, would be humbling.

As a retired teacher, I often wonder if I affected the life or way of thinking of just one of the thousands of students I taught.

If only one...all those years of work would have been well worth it.

And Chopin admired the way Liszt played his etudes because Liszt had a powerful touch, whereas Chopin did not. Not that he couldn't play loud. He could and did. But basically his touch was on the lighter side.

However, he was NOT happy when Liszt changed his music.

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1055107 - 09/06/06 02:56 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Quote
Originally posted by apple*:
if I were Mozart, i would indeed be pleased.

as to the question, i'd be delighted to hear anyone play upon my pieces, even a child just learning.
If you were Mozart, you would indeed be dead. wink


Slow down and do it right.
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#1055108 - 09/06/06 03:03 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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no less dead than Chopin.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#1055109 - 09/06/06 03:09 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Quote
Originally posted by apple*:
no less dead than Chopin.
Hey, we could start a Dead Composers' Society.


Slow down and do it right.
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#1055110 - 09/06/06 03:19 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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dibbies on Bach


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#1055111 - 09/06/06 03:35 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Personally I like to think of composers being much more embracing of other's attempts. I always liked that story of Chopin gushing over Liszt's playing of the Chopin Etude. It showed a certain amount of humility. That is one thing (from the biographies I have read) that I admire about Liszt. He had a huge ego but seemed very embracing of others. From all the countless transcriptions he did of other's works to the founding of the artists retreat at Weimar (?) he struck me as someone that just loved music.

That all said, I'm guessing he would be happy with folks taking liberties with his works. Of course...he would also probably be thinking they could NEVER do it as well as he. laugh


"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com

#1055112 - 09/06/06 03:45 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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I'm betting Chopin would hate my poor playing anyway but he would probably roll over in his grave if he heard this.

I was flailing with a Chopin waltz and had a little extraneous fun with it. :p


"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com

#1055113 - 09/06/06 04:54 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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You make me sick, Peyton. laugh

Not only did you do a great job on the waltz but to throw in that little jazz section was super. wink

I don't know if Chopin would have liked it, but I did.

And Chopin loved to improvise...so he just might be smiling down on you right now.

You're right about Liszt and his big heart. He didn't seem to have a jealous bone in his body. Why would he when he could play so magnificently.

Wonderful!!

And I really don't hate you. I'm just having a few really bad days at the piano. My fingers just don't want to "do the walkin'."

Kathleen


After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891
#1055114 - 09/07/06 08:23 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?  
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Schumann wrote a great little piece entitle 'Chopin'... a charicature of Chopin's melodic meanderings.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
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