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Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053554 10/18/08 11:20 PM
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BTW, has anyone else tried the Unisom SleepGels (diphenhydramine) or Unisom SleepTabs (doxylamine succinate)? Both are a "nighttime sleep-aid" and not addictive. Just trying to figure out why the same brand name has different ingredients.

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Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053555 10/19/08 12:51 AM
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Loved ohitpro's site. Done 'em all apart from the menopause bit.

Most of modern medicine is still in the dark ages. It's just witchcraft to constantly attempt a cure by adding something. Look to your lifestyle. Take away the cause - it's not what you're not doing it's what you are doing that's the problem.

Still, I'd love some of Nancy's old drug!

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053556 10/19/08 12:51 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by mr_super-hunky:


To clarify a few things, the source of my sleeping problems is due to the Lyme disease. Lyme disease causes inflamation in the large joints (hips, shoulders, knees) due to the inflamation which the bacteria causes.

Geez, the relentlessness of a condition like that must certainly make it a harder nut to crack. frown I wish that I could offer something more specific that could help. As it is, I can only say that:

a) I have successfully adapted to much less actual sleep that I used to get, and have learned to supplement it with useful non-sleeping rest. And
b) I’ve also had some success with being able to block or redirect pain messages.

Just out of interest, I checked the clock last night to see how long I slept for. Friends who came to dinner left at a bit after midnight, and I then sat and wrote at the computer until around a quarter to two and then went to bed. I woke again at quarter past five, so that was three and a half hours sleep. I then lay and rested for a further hour and got up a bit after six. No problems with that – I feel fine today. Tonight I might go up to as much as six hours, but it’s more likely that it will be two or three shorter sessions adding up to four or five actually asleep. This seems to be plenty. To an insomniac that probably sounds like luxury, but it’s a lot less than I used to get.

My wife and I both used to sleep right through, but were initially forced to adapt to a broken pattern (as many are) by the need to care for an erratically waking baby. This would normally have faded away but unfortunately he had a few epileptic seizures, always at night. So we learned to sleep with ‘one ear open’ in case we needed to get up quickly and give the medication to stop it. These are not frequent but we never know when they might happen, so you have to be prepared at any time. We were both able to adjust to that and neither of us ever really went back to sleeping right through for seven hours, or whatever the ‘regular’ amount is supposed to be.

My main experience with the pain issue has been (like Dennis above) decades of back and neck pain dating back to injury sustained when I was younger, and now some general but fairly low level knee pain. The back and neck stuff seems to come in a 24 hour version and a 4-7 day variety. If it’s the longer one then it didn’t matter what type of therapist that I saw (and I worked through them all, from the mainstream to the mad…) it didn’t speed the process up one iota. The only consistent remedy has been to try and relax, put up with it, and wait (as KK suggested) for the body to sort itself out. I can’t usually make it go quicker than it needs to take, but if I’m careless about allowing too much unnecessary muscle tension to remain then I can most certainly have it drag out for much longer than the time that it needs.

Along the way I discovered that I could often successfully block pain messages. Not always, but often enough to make it worthwhile persisting with the efforts. This doesn’t seem to require me to master anything mystical, just get better at concentrating on alternative stimuli and in some way blocking or redirecting the signals. We can all do that in small ways, quite normally, so it mostly seems to be getting more skilled and deliberate at doing something that we usually manage subconsciously in smaller ways. Techniques such as ‘biofeedback’ apparently use some equipment to help train you to learn how to control the process, but there seem to be numerous variations on the theme of learning to gain more control over your own body’s response to pain. Most seem to work very well for some people, but not others.

You have my sympathy and admiration for the way that you’re tackling this, but unfortunately that’s of no practical use, and neither is my vague waffling about what works for me. There may be places in your area that can teach more specific techniques for easing or blocking pain though. There are quite a number of non drug based pain managements that can be effective in some situations and which can be taught in more specific ways than my home grown effort. These can help complement any necessary drugs even if they are not able to replace them. I hope that you can find continued improved assistance.

Chris


Who needs feet of clay? I can get into enough trouble with feet made of regular foot stuff...
Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053557 10/19/08 01:12 AM
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Interesting article regarding diet and inflammation/arthritis:

http://rjr10036.typepad.com/askdrvernon/2006/09/athritis_and_ot.html

"Let food be thy medicine" - Hippocrates

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053558 10/19/08 01:22 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Elssa:
Interesting article regarding diet and inflammation/arthritis:

http://rjr10036.typepad.com/askdrvernon/2006/09/athritis_and_ot.html

"Let food be thy medicine" - Hippocrates
Yes! Though I'd change it to -
"Let carbs be thy poison"

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053559 10/19/08 01:33 AM
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Yikes,

I just saw this thread.

Add me to the list of insomniacs.

I check out eight sets of book CDs from the local library, and I have a small CD player right behind my pillow. Until a couple years ago I would have sworn that listening to anything would STOP me from sleeping, but I've formed the habit of turning over on my side, with just one bud in. Each CD is a bit longer than one hour, and I very seldom make it through without falling asleep. I even take a nap that way, right after coming home after teaching. At that time I may hear 15 minutes, suddenly "blank out" for a half hour, then wake back up, missing most of what went on. (Later I will move back tracks to catch where I nodded off.)

I use a noise machine IN ADDITION to this, because any noise not coming from the CD player will alert my mind. Anything that forms any kind of pitch or beat pattern will stop me from falling asleep.

Walking at night helps too, but I'm up every night very late (this is normal for me), and I need to complete walking an hour or two before going to sleep. Any kind of intense mental effort will make it much harder to sleep, and listening to something will often derail my mind when it starts to obsess. I've even awakened after dreaming about practicing something, and that's really bad news because then my mind attempts to continue working on something, on auto-pilot. That can be pure heck.

I don't expect the above to be any help to anyone, but I thought I'd throw it out in case. In fact, the most help is reading how many OTHER people suffer from these problems. Do you think that that those of us who share this problem partially suffer from over-active minds? Everyone who knows me says I think about everything, analyze everything. The idea of just "going with the flow" is something I suck at.

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053560 10/19/08 05:07 AM
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I can do a one-upmanship on reading boring books. Try duplicating such material in another language. Become translators, and then work on a paper describing inch by inch the progress of air flowing through a cylinder. (I just did).

More seriously, I discovered that I need less sleep than I thought and am more alert during the day because of it. I was told that years ago and resisted the logic of it.

Quote
The idea of just "going with the flow" is something I suck at.
Fortunately. laugh So you go with your flow instead of their flow, right? Hey, I've just invented a concept, "Shoemaker and Elf approach". How about this: you allow yourself to work on something that has grabbed you to the point of impossibility of going further, or the point of almost-insight. Then you tuck this into bed with the firm knowledge that "it" will have worked itself out for you overnight because of the way the brain works. The shoemaker sets out his leather, while he sleeps the elves are busy cobbling shoes, and in the morning the shoes are there. That's the process. You "give it to the elves" (your subconscious sleep-mode process) and let go of it completely but with the expectation and trust that it will "work out" (literally) for you to continue. You can put away your toys for the night knowing they haven't been taken away in the morning.

I suspect we have some similar processes. If you wake at 4:30 a.m. with the answer and feel alert, if you have a digital, go see what the elves have left under the Christmas tree. What do you think?

Quote
book CDs
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Book I almost covers a 6 hour trip to the parental home. My favourite line:

"The spaceships hovered motionlessly on the horizon in the manner that bricks don't."

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053561 10/19/08 05:30 AM
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A method used by many professionals - including academics - here is that the bedroom is used for sleeping. Sounds obvious. But try it.

Whilst my wife and I live modestly, also indispensible for a relaxing night's sleep - including a significantly shorter period of going to sleep, is being able to live what we in Australia call usually with a bit of eupphemism 'the bush'. For us this means that at night we hear the possums on the roof, owls, see proper bright moon and milky way with southern cross and not simply an orange-blurry-foggy-night-ceiling above being mere reflections from street lights.

From my travels and family in the U.S. and especially canada, such a rural life style within reach of many work places is a life style choice that is **not** dependent on income. But for the title of this thread it really is a great plus for good sleeps.

All the best, (from an already dark Victorian Warrandyte night,

ILH

PS Once spent a night at Duke University. We do not have racoons here, but if we did their superior intelligence to our possums would probably keep me up all night watching their antics ....!


"Oh for a world with no 'muzak' in stores ...."
Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053562 10/19/08 08:28 AM
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For the insomnia, count alpacas.


Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD


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Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053563 10/19/08 01:55 PM
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One complementary medicine doctor I went to said I had overactive adrenal gland function with high levels of cortisol (a stress hormone), and that was causing the insomnia. The stuff he gave me for it, though, upset my stomach, so I couldn't take it.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2001/08/29/insomnia-part-one.aspx

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053564 10/19/08 03:36 PM
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Here is a clip of a newly released movie that may give you a glimpse into the lives of people who have chronic Lyme disease.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxWgS0XLVqw

DON'T think that this could'nt happen to you as all that needs to occur is to get bitten by an infected tick. That's what happened to me.

If you live anywhere where there is woods and trees, especially in the east coast, you need to be VERY proactive in preventing a tick bite. As I've said, if treated early on, your succsess of treatment is very good but if left to manifest over several years, there may be no cure. Unfortunately, many people who get bitten don't know it (my case) and as a result don't find out that they are infected until the bacteria has gotten deep into their tissue which no drugs can get to.

I can't sleep anymore due to this condition and my joints are slowly starting to lock up. Last fall I went through a radical 6 mos on chemotherapy in an effort to kill off several generations of red blood cells in hopes to wipe out the bacteria (spirocheets) causing all the problems. It did'nt work.

I am at the point of "self-help" now since almost nothing I have tried seems to work. This is why I am asking for any suggestion that you may have to obtain better sleep as I will try just about anything at this point.

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053565 10/20/08 02:32 AM
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My Dad got Lyme disease, and the colloidal silver was very helpful. He no longer has the disease.

http://www.autoimmunityresearch.org/lyme-disease/
"Colloidal Silver -- Colloidal silver therapy for Lyme disease appears to be significantly effective with many individuals that have used it."

www.csprosystems.com

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053566 10/20/08 10:59 AM
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I have always had trouble sleeping, mostly becuase of racing thoughts. One day I just kept repeating a calming word in my head. On antother occassion I tapped my finger on the side of my bed. Its sounds weird but it worked I was asleep faster then I had ever been in years. I think it worked because it stopped my mind/thoughts from racing because I was focusing on the work or the tapping and not the thought going through my head. I told myself whatever it is I can't do anything about it right now so I may as well get to sleep. I told my friend about this because her daughter was having trouble sleeping. She said it helped her sleep as well. It may seem overly simplistic but I don't like taking sleep meds either. I think ultimatley they do more harm than good.
Best of luck and sweet dreams smile


“The doubters said, "Man cannot fly," The doers said, "Maybe, but we'll try,"
And finally soared in the morning glow while non-believers watched from below.”
― Bruce Lee
Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053567 10/20/08 11:11 AM
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There are many, many good methods of getting to sleep. It's staying asleep that's the problem.

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053568 10/20/08 11:17 AM
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My Super_Hunky,
I just read a little more about your situation and I first want to say that I am sorry you are dealing with so much pain. I have had problems with chronic pain, chronic fatigue and tendonitis. Dr.'s first course of action is to perscribe meds and that's last thing I want is to be dependant on them to feel "normal". I also know some dr's get bonuses from pharmacuetical (sp?) companies so it makes me question whether or not it really is necesary. I tried the physical therapy excerices one doctor recommended but it proved to be too painful. Overtime I tried some alternative therapies such as accupunture, accupressure, and yoga, I also learned alot about nutrition (I am a junk food jumkie) and I learned to reduce stress. All of this has helped quite a bit. I go back forth between eating healthfully and eating junk but hey I'm human. I really wish you the best and hope you find some releif for your pain and insomnia.


“The doubters said, "Man cannot fly," The doers said, "Maybe, but we'll try,"
And finally soared in the morning glow while non-believers watched from below.”
― Bruce Lee
Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053569 10/20/08 11:55 AM
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I can really empathize with you, Super_Hunky,

Pressure point pressing - so many places seem to need it on the body - the points are usually symmetrically placed on the body - if there is one in the right inner elbow, there will be one in the left inner elble.

I use Pain-e-trate from Melaleuka company as it is the only thing that stops my aches in the muscle cream products.

Drink lots of water throughout the day. Eat well, there may be some foods to avoid and others to include.

Warmth from a vinyl covered, chemical gel super saturated solution, with a disc that you pinch, starts the reaction for heating. I enjoy mine and it brings comfort - I usually use it on the neck,shoulders, upper back, but it can fit anywhere on the body.

A comfortable bed, pillows to your liking, are major, aromatherapy (vanilla fragrance is my choice that helps ease from day into night).

And, my "sauna" which is me taking a shower, wrapping up in a big bath sheet and climbing into bed wet. As you sleep, the warmth from your body dries and you should feel really good when waking up in an hour or two. I say this because this is something I would do before a nap. I find naps delicious and necessary.

Rocking chairs lull if you rock slowly.

Deep breathing is important and can be done at any time, but especially if you find your self looking at the ceiling and your mind racing.

Sometimes, I've played a game with my mind reciting all the words I can think of beginning with the letter "Q"....or choose your own letter.
You'll take one big yarn, and roll over into oblivion before you know it."

You could hum a mantra.

I have to include different things every day to help me cope with limitations and pain...it's an opportunity to be creative and self knowledgable.

How we got to our pain and discomfort needs to be accepted at a deep level. What we do for ourselves in care taking is a big step to progress.

With best wishes to you and all who are coping!

Betty

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053570 10/20/08 12:24 PM
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Mr. S-H,

As other forum members have already said, the first and most important thing you have to do is asking your physician about you problem.
Insomnia is not to be taken lightly, it's a problem that surely can undermine the health and the everyday living of people who suffer from it.

I'm sure you already know and maybe you have tried it already, but one thing that seems to work are Melatonine capsules. They aren't available in every country (we have to import them from France) but surely you can find them in the States. Of course, it's your physician who has to decide if that kind of treatment is appropiate for you.
We're dispensing Melatonine to patiens already heavily polymedicated or the ones who prefer to stay away from the traditional psicotropical substances.

Nobody get me wrong here, I'm not saying that this is the panacea or the ultimative miracle, far from it. It's just another possibility to consider next time you see your doctor, lighter (but safer) that the zombifying drugs.

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053571 10/20/08 01:56 PM
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Elssa, that was a fantastic article you provided. I have'nt tried the colloidal silver yet as the 6 mos chemotherapy treatment I was on last fall (Atavaquone) was supposed to be the strongest medical treatment available.

I was told that it did'nt work due to the fact that the bacteria is to deep within the tissue where the drugs cannot get to.

The problem with these radical off label treatments is that the drugs can be worse than the disease itself as the chemo made me very very sick as well as nuts!.

There is nothing worse than waking up in the morning on a beautiful warm sunny day only to be mad and super ****ed off for absolutely no reason. The joint pain is not severe like stubbing your toe or falling on your hip, but it is enough of a constant reminder all day long to keep a smile off of your face.

Thats got to be the worst part of all since I am naturally a very happy and outgoing person.

Betty, your rocking chair suggestion is a great one. I actually have 2 rocking chairs in the house plus we just bought a rocking recliner chair. The constant moving motion really does a lot to ease the nagging soreness while watching tv or just sitting. This is something that helps out a great deal.

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053572 10/20/08 02:23 PM
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I believe this Lyme disease should not
be a debilitating condition. Every
yr. thousands of deer hunters get bit
by ticks carrying truckloads of the
Lyme bacteria and it doesn't affect them.
They're simply used to being bitten by
deer ticks. The type of people who get
affected by this are typically city
folks who are not comfortable out in
the woods, so the first tick that bites
them is probably the first tick that
ever bit them and so they have no
immunity to it, and moreover they read
the medical literature about Lyme disease
and this only makes things much worse
psychosomatically.

The solution in my opinion is to stop
taking these drugs for Lyme disease,
because psychologically this puts
you into the frame of mind that you're sick.
And in any case, they don't cure the disease,
so what's the point of taking them then?
And you should take up outdoor activities
like hunting, that put you into direct contact
with deer ticks, and so forth, so that
you get more bites, which will build
your immunity to the disease.

Re: How do you get a good nights sleep?.
#1053573 10/20/08 02:30 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Gyro:
The solution in my opinion is to stop
taking these drugs for Lyme disease,
because psychologically this puts
you into the frame of mind that you're sick.
And in any case, they don't cure the disease,
so what's the point of taking them then?
And you should take up outdoor activities
like hunting, that put you into direct contact
with deer ticks, and so forth, so that
you get more bites, which will build
your immunity to the disease.
More idiocy.

Has anyone ever been banned for being terminally stupid?

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