Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum expression cant be taught?

Like I mentioned above, I'm a guy therefore I can't sing like Whitney (or other great singers, for that matter.)

I'm not asking anyone to actually sing out the song while playing.

The emotion comes from within. And within you, you can imagine being "the great singer" and making your piano be your voice.

It would help if some of you reveal how long you've been playing the piano. I don't remember when I experienced my first *wow* moment, but I've been playing the piano since 1973. It probably took me a few years as I began searching out different versions of the same songs. And there are many that are arranged better than others.

I only used O Holy Night as a starting point.

Many years ago, I had a sheet music to Brian's Song, the arrangement of which I have matured from. Well, just last week, I was rummaging through my piano books and I came across yet another, different version of Brian's Song. This version is a little harder to play but much easier to express than the first version, which was simply easier to play but harder to express. (Yeah, go figure! LOL!)

Just to let others know, I wasn't saying THAT. (I don't want to blamed for something I didn't do.)

What I did to express in a song is to EMULATE THE SINGER in that same song, using THE PIANO AS MY VOICE, MAKING THE PIANO SING.

alleon: May I ask how long you've been playing the piano? Just curious. Don't be shy, I won't laugh.

I'm amazed with this thread.

I suddenly realized how my school days had prepared me for being the pianist I am. These things I will mention may seem average but today I'm convinced in knowing it wasn't just the piano lessons that created my musicianship.

Singing popular and church songs with my mother and sister when I was 3 till the time I left home.

Twirling a baton and marching around in a pair of baton boots while playing in the yard. Self taught from going to lots of parades. Age 6-8

Having a year or two of tap dancing and ballet lessons...difficult for me to get all the sequences right but practice showed productive and you keep building on learned skills conquering body movement on demand. Ages 8-9ish.

This is the silliest one, movie theaters to see just about every show that ever came to the 3 theaters in town. Walking home from the movies, my mother, sister and I would sing the songs we'd heard, and I'd lead the pack of us down the streets dancing around, circling telephone poles, leaping over cracks in the sidewalk and mimicing Fred, Gene, Debbie, Jane, Donald, Anne, Julie (Astaire,Kelly, Reynolds, Powell, O'Connor, Miller, Andrews). Movies were 25 cents at the time, later moving up to $1. I felt rich but was not.

I read at a high grade level and loved writing stories, fiction, and journalism of sorts once I got fitted with glasses in 3rd grade. I got chosen to act and narrate for school plays.

Piano lessons age 9 to 15, having a number of influences in my playing including - accompanying for solo voices and instruments, choral, and orchestra. And having musician teachers who were very fine at what they did. Three in piano, 2 in voice, one in stringed instruments by the time I was 15.

Then no piano from age 15 to age 27. Another story, another time.

The hard work musically came later and has lasted my lifetime.

Betty

I don't know what got me into music. I mean, music was being played around the house (radios and LPs) and on TV, with all the variety shows of the late '60s and early '70s. I learned clarinet in 3rd grade. A few months later, my mom bought a piano for my sisters. I said, "Hey, I want piano lessons, too!"

I was drum major for my high school for two years!

Whoa, story of my life, too! Age 18 to about 30.

Same thing here, too! I'm glad to have taken piano lessons early, in order to get the basics out of the way. Nowadays, I'm probably a little rusty in some places of the keyboard, but I am more focused in expressing myself on the piano than during my early years.

basically, music expressions are about phrasing, shading, dynamics and all those combined. the reason that you hear one recording differs from another on the same music is that the different pianist uses different combination of phrasing, shading and etc., even slightly. the example is that if you play some particular notes just slightly longer than someone else does (even with the same tempo), the music or your playing of it will sound a little different than someone else plays.

some teachers will point out such things for intermediate to advanced students when dealing with performance and musicality issues.

it definitely is not 'how hard you try' thing, but about how you make the music sound.

I've been trying to get this one rythmn down..and have told its not do-able..the opening piano intro to "At Last" by Etta James..any suggestions?
I'm using a DP..is this hindering me?

Sorry I didn't mean to misquote you, TVR. Still, unless you are emulating a singer by directly imitating, I don't see much difference. I may be able to emulate a great singer immediately after listening to them sing, but if not immediately after listening, then, not being a great singer myself, only in distorted approximation. Now if you mean to actively listen to a singer singing a piece you are actually working on, and immediately trying to imitate on the piano what they do with their voice, then yes, I think that would be very useful (and similar to my suggestion to actively imitate great pianists' recordings). Of course this is only one tool to grow as a musician. It is fair to say that imitation may be superficial, especially at first, but I do believe that emulating examples of excellent playing can lead a player to break through their own limitations. I have had experiences of playing the piano immediately after listening to a great performer and finding myself playing on a much higher level artistically. What I am suggesting is that if we do this with enough intensity and repetition, eventually our music making is bound to be elevated.

As an aside, when I used to teach piano I used to make a point of NOT playing the pieces my students were working on for them. I didn't want them to learn by imitating. Now I think that is ALL WRONG. When and if I go back to teaching I plan to CONSTANTLY demonstrate for my students. I think imitation is one of the most powerful and natural ways one develops artistically.

I guess what people are really arguing is that by imitating, one is only imitating the result of an underlying impetus that caused the player (singer) to play (sing) expressively. That's a fair criticism, and I do think it's also imperative to develop one's own musical imagination. I just think that imitation can be one catalyst to doing just that.

TheVibeRAIDER,

I thought it was unusual the way we had some things in parallel growing up. I appreciate you mentioning them, too. Makes me feel more "normal" I guess. There were lots of painful and difficult times in my childhood due to family circumstances and I always felt like I was a burden to them. Then I remember the things I treasure about my childhood, such as the musicical things, and it becomes more balanced again. The pain vs the joy of it.

So you were a drum major! I always admired the strutting and stamina of being the leader. Way up there on my list of role models - BMOC! School and band pride to the max!

And then, the loss of not having an instrument for a long time. That was very, very difficult, I'm sure. I couldn't live without it so I started home teaching for 10 kids from a Sherman Clay in Topanga and it helped me earn money for the piano I needed. I entered teaching through the back door - and it's 37 years later, now.

Doesn't time fly! That's why the posters who say "I'm 47 years old, is it too late to start piano? don't realize how precious the time they will have if they start now really is! Time is of the essence!

Thanks for your response. I would have private messaged you, but you don't have an email listed on your profile. Hope being public here is not annoying to you. High five!

Betty

Exactly! And let's say this is just the first step to expressive playing. After that, the beginner begins to develop one's own style.

And don't worry, JerryS88, I don't think you misquoted me. So no worries there. I just have to protect myself when I say something, it is just a suggestion, because there are so many ways to a solution.

Now some songs are easier to express than others. The OP, Alleon, should tell us what piece of music was recorded. Only then can we point to the right direction. Right now, I'm sure, we're firing blindly because what if that piece of music is from the days before the pianoforte came into existence?

You mean there was no expression before the piano?

Jerry you made some interesting points. The bottom line though is an opposing pair: expression vs imitation. In other words - do you (or do you not) have something to say?

Agree with all of the above and add one thing:

Music is a language. When you play a piece, you are making musical statements. The musical language has phrases, beginnings and ends of statements, high points, just like language.

First, you need to have the piece under your hands so you can play it effortlessly, as some others mentioned.

Then, you might pick one word that describes the mood of the piece you are playing, as suggested by Betty. Put that mood into every note that you play in that piece. Put everything you have into every note because every note is important. This requires a certain level of concentration and focus.

In the end the piece should be your own interpretation. But you can use your recording to help you discover what mood is evoked by that pianist. Eventually, you will have your own variation. That is what brings satisfaction. And the fact that you are asking this and searching this out means you are on your way.

And then further down the way, you may find it difficult to agree with other interpretations because they will not sound right to you.

So, listen thinking about mood. Play the mood and try to make the music speak and say the mood in every note. And believe it or not, listening to opera helps!

In terms of dynamics, at least not on a harpsichord.

Music for harpsichord was most often intended for clavichord (an older instrument) as well which does have dynamics.

Wow! That sounds like what I do with my piano pieces! Sometimes, I can make the same song sad or happy. For example, I happened across a version of Paper Roses, which is a sad song. Out of heck, I speeded it up and shortened the notes, to make it sound happy. Marie Osmond would probably laugh while crying!

Can you post the intro? Or perhaps a link to it? I would like to see it.

Its the infamous Rock rythmn featured in hundreds of tunes..Only You by the Platters.. the list would be endless..