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"In fact, the London tabloids do not make anti German references very often these days, except perhaps on the rare occasions when an English team plays a German one at football (soccer)."

Well, the Sun did recently welcome the new German Pope with the headline "From Hitler Youth to Papa Ratzi" and the Daily Mail called him the "Panzer Cardinal."

Steinway has been an American company for over a century. It happens to make some of its pianos in Hamburg, just as BMW happens to make some of its cars in South Carolina.

Steinway has been building pianos in Germany for 127 years, and to different design specifications than those in NY. Hardly an apt comparison to todays BMW.

Its true. Steinway & Sons of New York has been building pianos in Germany for over 100 years. A true American pioneer of globalization.

Steinway has been building pianos in Germany for 127 years, and to different design specifications than those in NY. Hardly an apt comparison to todays BMW.

While there are some differences they are essentially the same design.

Paulsbenn:
Steinway & Sons of New York has been building pianos in Germany for over 100 years.

A bit longer than that considering the instruments that Heinrich Engelhard Steinweg^H^H^Henry E. Steinway made in Germany before he left for New York. So I think you'll find that Steinway and Sons of New York were a true German pioneer of globalisation

Michael B.

Excellent point. Although the pianos are now called Steinways and not Steinwegs. America was and is a country of immigrants!

So we are agreed that Steinways are German pianos. Thank goodness for that.

Of course, as the Chinese, with their huge economic resources, gradually take over American industry, soon all that stuff produced in America will be Chinese.

Even Texas will not be spared!

So we are agreed that Steinways are German pianos. Thank goodness for that.

Not..The Steinway came to be what it is in New York despite its German heritage. If its not a USA development because of its heritage than nothing is American since even the Native Americans emigrated to this continent.

LJC:
The Steinway came to be what it is in New York despite its German heritage.

Blimey, you have an odd keyboard on your computer, as it appears to have typed 'despite' when of course the appropriate phrase is 'thanks to'. Here's the thing: the chap was born in Germany, made his first pianos in Germany (15 years before leaving the country), emigrated from Germany at age of 54 due to political instability and insecurity in his homeland, changed his name to a more anglo-sounding one and founded his new piano company in New York. Of course this new company was steeped in German tradition... As for your last comment, it is sometimes said that Europeans think that two hundred miles is a long way, and Americans think that two hundred years is a long time .

Michael B.

Of course, at that time Germany wasn't exactly the engineering and industrial powerhouse that we know today. It was hardly even a country

With all due respect to its German roots, Steinway & Sons is a thoroughly American success story. As for its pianos, they were actually shaped through early and intense competition with names like Chickering and Mason & Hamlin - not Bosendorfer or Bechstein.

Paulwbenn:
at that time Germany wasn't exactly the engineering and industrial powerhouse that we know today. It was hardly even a country

Indeed. It was still merely a Confederation of 40 odd entities at the time old Heinrich climbed aboard the boat for the New World... though we all know the results a few generations later when it did become united and industrialised... twice in fact

Anyway, it's time to eat here in Yurrup, so I think I might tuck into a pizza... hold on, I hear that you have them over there too, so surely that's another fine traditional American product as well? I suppose especially so if the Italian who made it emigrated after the age of fifty...buon appetito!

Michael B.

"changed his name to a more anglo-sounding one and founded his new piano company in New York."

Thats correct. In other words he became an American and started an American Company.

LJC:
In other words he became an American and started an American Company.

"Despite" having been German for the previous 54 years? . I could start calling myself Michel/Mikaël, and even take the passport, but it wouldn't really make me Swiss. If I started a company e.g. blending and making tea, if that was the professional and skill I had practiced in England beforehand, it wouldn't make it a Swiss tea company either.

Of course, I am well aware that the United States (perhaps more than many other countries) is a nation of relatively recent immigrants and a that the ideal of an overarching American national identity has developed (and/or been imposed) for many socio-economic and political reasons. It is fun occasionally to tease LeftPonders about such things, though some display more (or less) of a sense of humo(u)r than others

Michael B. (also in an immigrant!)

The English like few things better than baiting Americans about history. Disgraceful. The English sardonic or dry humour is often not grasped or appreciated by our friends across the pond. And double standards abound.

At present I am involved in a corporate transaction with some American gentlemen who are seeking to invest in a controlling share in a little business in Europe.

I had dinner with six of them just before Christmas and we were talking about ancestry. Each of the six was passionate about his European origins. Three claimed Irish ancestry. They were the ones who liked potatoes. Two claimed Italian ancestry. They were the ones who liked pasta. The sixth claimed English descent and he was the one with a sense of humour.

Had one of them had German forbears, I am sure he would have agreed with us that Steinways are in fact German pianos through and through. With maybe a few recent (i.e. 100 years ago) US touches here and there.

With kind regards

Adrian

For a complete list of things American, take a listen to the song, "America, F*** Yeah from the American movie Team America.

Included are such American staples as sushi and Taco Bell. (Steinways are not included). Check out the entire list and don't you forget it!

Steinways are American pianos.

So there!

Do you mean ALL Steinways or just NY Steinways?

I mean all Steinways. Steinway is an American company that builds some pianos in their factory in Germany.

I have yet to hear someone refer to a Camry as anything other than a Japanese car. This, despite the fact that every Camry you see on the road in the US and Canada is built in Kentucky.

Works both ways.

There you go.

Sadly Starting Over you are deluding yourself.

And it is just as well for Steinway. If people in Europe thought these things were, horror of horrors, American (we in Europe know just how truly dreadful American cars are - great in a straight line, briefly, but hopeless around corners) - Steinway would be lucky to sell any pianos over here at all.

A Camry, on the other hand, is definitely American. No question about that. Honestly, how could anyone doubt it. Have you driven one?

Kind regards

Adrian