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#1026416 - 11/03/04 09:35 AM Sudnow method  
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markb Offline
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Does anyone have any experience with the Sudnow method? It appears to address popular piano technique, as opposed to classical. I'm wondering if it would be a useful complement to my more traditional piano lessons.

www.sudnow.com


markb--The Count of Casio
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#1026417 - 11/10/04 05:29 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Paret Offline
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Hi. smile I took Dr. Sudnow's seminar in Dallas the last weekend in September 2004. I had never played before and I'm 42 and very willing to learn. I can recommend his course very highly. It approaches learning in a very practical way. I'm already working on my second song and feel very satisfied. I'm really learning.

You can also do a search for more comments in this forum. Just search Sudnow.

Enjoy,

thumb


Luis D. Paret
K1LDP
#1026418 - 11/13/04 03:24 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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calvin Offline
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from what i can tell on the web site it looks like it is simular to scott houstons way of teaching but is a lot more detailed and takes it to another level . its something that i think that i will like


calvin
#1026419 - 11/13/04 07:09 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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mikhailoh Offline
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I just looked at it.. hey.. $44 is just a couple weekly lessons. What the heck.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
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#1026420 - 11/14/04 12:54 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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Frank R Offline
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I asked my teacher about this guy and he said of all of the methods he has seen this is by far the worst! Don't waist your money!


Keep a song in your heart!

Frank
--------------------------
It's not who we are that holds us back, it's who we think we're not!
#1026421 - 11/14/04 08:45 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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mikhailoh Offline
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Well.. ya gotta remember you are asking a teacher whether or not he likes a guy who stands to put him out of business.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#1026422 - 11/14/04 11:00 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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Frank R Offline
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I did say that very thing to him and his response was simple. I have a waiting list for new students and the people that are interested in that type of method are not likely to be my students anyway. He did say that there are several self teaching methods that he has seen that are far superior to Sudnow. He wasn't being negative as to self teaching in general he just had a good amount of knowledge of this method and felt it was a poor use of time and energy for someone that was interested in learning piano. Also that they would probably not last very long before they either quit altogether or hopefully found a better source.

Sorry my previous post was kind of short and may have seamed too negative. Just trying to pass on some info. that I would like to know if I was considering the same.

Good luck and keep a song in your heart.


Keep a song in your heart!

Frank
--------------------------
It's not who we are that holds us back, it's who we think we're not!
#1026423 - 11/14/04 11:26 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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Bob Muir Offline
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"He did say that there are several self teaching methods that he has seen that are far superior to Sudnow."

Frank, what *would* your teacher recommend for those interested in Sudnow's methods?

#1026424 - 11/14/04 02:36 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Frank R Offline
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I'll ask for a referral and pass it along.


Keep a song in your heart!

Frank
--------------------------
It's not who we are that holds us back, it's who we think we're not!
#1026425 - 11/14/04 06:40 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Frank R Offline
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Just got this back from my teacher. I'm sure not everyone will agree with his view on self teaching. I am sure there are some people that can do it but I agree with his assessment in general. Here is his response:

"So-called "self-teaching" methods all ultimately fail unless the person
doing them already has a strong musical background with another musical
instrument. With this background, you will never know how to fix what's
broken without a point of reference. Even with previous music
experience it can be very tricky!

The Ann Collins books seem to be the best so far. All the others I've
seen are so illogically laid out as to be somewhat useless overall. Try
here for a description:

http://www.alfred.com/span_webcat/item_detail.cfm?pub=0&item=199

http://www.alfred.com/span_webcat/item_detail.cfm?pub=0&item=18785

These books are more or less the same as what I base all of my pop/jazz
teaching on."

Hope this helps.


Keep a song in your heart!

Frank
--------------------------
It's not who we are that holds us back, it's who we think we're not!
#1026426 - 11/15/04 12:06 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Paret Offline
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Just a different perspective. thumb


Luis D. Paret
K1LDP
#1026427 - 11/15/04 12:14 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Lightnin Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Paret:
But as far as learning you won't learn chinese quickly unless you move there and nobody else around you speaks English. You'll find a way.
Some prior preparation with the basics probably would have been helpful too. smile

#1026428 - 11/15/04 01:10 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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i am using a simular method and all i can say is that i had never sat down at a piano and in 3 days i was playing "i can't stop loving you" though far from being good the few people that heard me knew what i was playing . this whole forum seems to be stuck on conventional teaching why spend untold hours going plunky plunk when in a fairly short time you could be playing real music . this thing does take pratice and lots of it but if you are wanting to play popular music and have the determination i think this method will work


calvin
#1026429 - 11/16/04 08:16 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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markb,

The type of music you want to play should dictate the methos of teaching. If your goal is to play classical music from full notation, then classical training is the only approach. It is a long, difficult but extremely rewarding venture.

If your goal is to play pop (everything else besides classical) then the classical approach will work but it is NOT the only way and is definately not the shortest path. Some would say that this is the difference between playing piano and playing keyboard.

The method you are looking at is geared towards arranger keyboards where accompinaments are played given cues by the left hand chords while the right hand is playing the melody. This style of music uses lead sheets (fake books) where the melody (right hand) is given in music notation, while the left hand is shown using chord symbols.

By learning to read just the treble cleff and a few chords, the average person can be playing a huge volume of pop music quite well in a very short period of time (as compared to years it takes to learn to play classical)

Once you learn the chord symbols and their fingering, then you can start to experiment with color chords, alternative fingerings, and bass patterns and arpeggios to give your pop pieces more depth but this is just icing on the cake and comes with time.

First evaluate your goals and then decide on the correct approach. I personally do both as I want to be able to play all kinds of music.

Rodney

#1026430 - 11/16/04 11:35 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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Luis,

I went away and came back to read your post again. This is an adult forum, and your post is both ill-informed and insulting. You denigrate the aspirations and the efforts of those of us who have chosen the traditional path as well as those who teach us.

The fast methods are fine if you want to play popular music and are unconcerned about sight reading. Nothing wrong with that at all. But bear in mind you're not going to be able to play the multi-voice complexities of the world's most beautiful and enduring music.

If you want to play classical you need to put in the hours, and it is a wonderful journey. At 3 years in I'm pretty typical on here and I'm playing Chopin, Satie, Mozart, Rimsky-Korsakov, Debussy, etc. At 3 months I was playing The Entertainer, not middle C.

We're doing a little better than Hi in Chinese, Luis. Maybe you're just a slow learner.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#1026431 - 11/16/04 02:29 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Rodney Offline
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Luis,

I think your comments about piano teachers is VERY misleading and quite frankly insulting. No teacher would deliberately follow a method that would hold a student back or take longer than required.

As I said in my prior post, the style of teaching is directly related to the style of playing. This is the very first aspect of selecting a piano teacher. If you understand your goals, then you are half-way there. I suspect that most piano teachers assume that a student wants to learn to play classical music (after all you are going for piano lessons and not keyboard lessons). That said, there are many teachers that can instruct on playing POP keyboard from lead sheets, or Jazz comping or improvisation or any other style of playing that you can think of.

It sounds like you had a bad experience with a piano teacher which was likely caused by YOU not being clear with him/her on your goals / style of playing. That's not to say that all piano teachers are good because they're not, but they're not all bad either.

Rodney

#1026432 - 11/16/04 03:14 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Rodney,

Thanks for your objective and informative response. My problem is I'd love to be able to play classical and pop, but I realistically don't have time to adequately devote to both. In fact, I don't have as much time as I'd like to devote to just one style. Still, I was hoping to get some insight on the possiblity of "majoring" in one style while "minoring" in another.

I plan to continue my piano lessons for now, as I can gain skill and knowledge presumably applicable to both styles. However, I wouldn't mind having a method for pop music that I could work on my own, at my own pace. I just don't want to waste time and money on an ineffective method or something that doesn't go beyond what I already know, which is playing left hand chords/right hand melody for fairly simple tunes. This is fine for either playing by myself (I can't sing well, so I let the piano sing the melody) or at a very basic form for other people. But, this doesn't really address accompanying other musicians or singers in the popular style.

I bought a book from Berklee College of Music which addresses playing keyboards in a band, but it assumes a level of skill that I don't yet have. I'd like a more step-by-step method.

You mentioned that there are shorter ways, other than traditional, classical lessons, to reach this goal. I was hoping you could provide more information.

Thanks!


markb--The Count of Casio
#1026433 - 11/16/04 03:32 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Paret Offline
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My comments were not intended to degrade any teachers. I've been an instructor for years in other fields and highly respect educators. I used a little exaggeration to point out that there is more than one set way of learning. Not everything works for everybody.
I didn't appreciate the comment about a specific method (SUDNOW) been the worst there is when that is not correct.
Just enjoy learning however you do it and be open minded enough to see that SUDNOW works for many.
Some people can't spend money on weekly lessons and can still learn.
Piano is fun and gratifying. ENJOY IT.

thumb


Luis D. Paret
K1LDP
#1026434 - 11/16/04 03:41 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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i agree that there are many ways of learning, and both of the following statements are true:

- "some people don't need a teacher to learn to play piano."
- "many people need a teacher to learn to play piano."

#1026435 - 11/16/04 04:02 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Luis,

Your own words:

"Thousands of people have started learning using his method that goes directly into playing and not a mini step by step learn how to play C in three months approach. That's how teachers make their living so they need to extend as long as feasible."

If your statement that teachers make their money by shortchanging the students on an ongoing basis does not seem degrading to you, you have no command of the English language.

Rather than trying to weasel out by calling it 'a little exaggeration' and feigning indignation at someone's comment on Sudnow, you would be better off to simply apologize.


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#1026436 - 11/16/04 04:16 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Quote
Originally posted by mikhailoh:
I just looked at it.. hey.. $44 is just a couple weekly lessons. What the heck.
As you said, Michael - What can it hurt? If it helps what's $44 now-a-days? I have an instruction DVD set that I enjoy, but I also value my lessons. There's a place for it all. I just wish I could find the time to take a good, strong Theory course so that I could recognize all those D___ chords in all their disguises immediately.! :t:


You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany
#1026437 - 11/16/04 04:43 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Teachum,

Yep.. $44 measly bucks. Do you have the Sudnow course, or something else?


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#1026438 - 11/16/04 09:35 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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I apologize. frown (
And yes English is my second language so sometimes I might not express myself correctly.

Just trying to share some thoughts.


Luis D. Paret
K1LDP
#1026439 - 11/16/04 10:17 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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calvin Offline
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are you folks talking about playing the piano or performing brain surgury.. come on folks this thing just is not that compilcated . it does take pratice no questions about that . but its not rocket science. music is supposed to be fun not a lot of work so kindly lighten up a little . if you want to spend years leaning it the old classical way do it but don't deprive some the joy of music by scaring the bejevers out of them by making them think that is the only way to play music there are many kinds of music other than classical... why do you think that the other is called popular ...it's because so many of us like it, not classical . the piano is very capable of playing anything from rock to country without years and years of study


calvin
#1026440 - 11/17/04 07:29 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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Calvin,

I don't think anyone here said you can't learn to play songs by using the quick methods, and I've been suppoortive of Sudnow.. or Houston or anyone else's method. If it works for you, great! I plan to learn to play from a fake book as well, but continue my lessons too.

But I don't think anyone can argue that you'll be able to go much beyond right hand melody, left hand accompaniment using these methods. Each approach has its good and bad points.

Who do you think is trying to scare people out of using these methods?


Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'
#1026441 - 11/17/04 07:48 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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markb,

Now I think I understand your goals. I'll assume you are taking classical solo piano but would also like a learn at your own pace (without a teacher) course to help you develope skills to perform accompinament for a band playing other styles. (Kind of long winded wasn't it...)

If this is the case then maybe I can help. Take a look at the following web site:

http://quenmar.com/

As far as I'm aware, it is the only course specifically designed to meet the above requirements. It is not specifically written for adults but is suitable.

BTW:

I purchased this course (along with just about every other method book out there) and have found it both useful and enjoyable.

This course is NOT intended to replace regular music lessons but to augment them.

Rodney

#1026442 - 11/17/04 08:02 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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Thanks so much, Rodney! Your link appears to be just what I was looking for. My only question now is whether I start with beginner, basic, or advanced books.


markb--The Count of Casio
#1026443 - 11/17/04 08:15 AM Re: Sudnow method  
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Rodney Offline
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The Beginner books are very basic so your decision should be based on your current music reading ability. Look at the samples page which has material from each of the books. This should give you an indication of where to start.

Good luck and enjoy!!

Rodney

#1026444 - 11/17/04 02:16 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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Actually . . .

I think brain surgery might be easier than learning to play piano as an adult.

Guess we'll never know!

#1026445 - 11/17/04 03:19 PM Re: Sudnow method  
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It is painful sometimes, huh Cindy? I have three little girls in my class who are taking lessons and I let them play on the piano at recess sometimes. Their little fingers just fly over the keys like it's nothing. Sometimes when I start a new piece I think I'm NEVER going to get it and then all of a sudden the brain starts kicking in and connecting with the fingers.


You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

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