Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Is anyone else out there Angry at "traditional piano"?

I too only drink brandy. I am far from a typical Kiwi I'm afraid. Quote ? Oh, Aleister ? I had just read his autobiography. What an extraordinary man. I only apply the quote to my music, wherein it is a truly wonderful maxim. In life, no, I don't want to end up in as much strife as he did thank you.

I never said or implied such a thing. Why would you want me to prove it?

Link please. You can't just tell me to "investigate a report" and then not point me in the right direction.

Oh, and I really like the way you call me "the chappie." It's cute.

Interestingly enough, my sister and I (8 years apart) both took several years of lessons as teenagers. We were taught classical music and as far as we knew there was no teacher, at least in our area teaching anything else.

We both quit because we weren't allowed to play anything we liked. No matter how hard I practiced I never enjoyed the music.

I picked it back up somewhat later and she did last year. Now we can play anything we like, are learning to play from lead sheets and can express music from our hearts instead of a dead composers heart.

We are both easing in to some classics also but it's taking a while to get over the old distaste from the years of selections being forced on us.

Just for a moment flake,

I thought that you had valuable evidence to disprove that the author of this thread ... battling pianoNoob ... was wrong in suggesting
“It seems that 95% of the teachers teach classical piano, which is what about 5% of the piano players want.”

You’re perfectly entitled to disagree with what the rest of the world might take as established custom ... but you are shooting yourself in the foot in countering pianoNoob’s valid impression that “the majority of people who take lessons learn to hate it” ... with a high-handed ...

“That’s a pretty ignorant statement. If that were true, most professional pianist these days would be the ones that never took lessons as child, which I think is contrary to the truth.”

What daft logic ... the Teachers Forum is chock-ful of evidence of well-meaning mentors struggling to maintain pupil motivation ... in particular, there is a thread called “The pyramid effect” ... which effectively tells of the documented decline in pupil interest of piano lessons ( about 5 years) ... largely the inability to master sight-reading ... and the reality of having to squash the dream of ever being able to play a select personal choice of keyboard music.

95% may teach 'classical' but I'd be surprised if more than a quarter of them were actually good teachers. That's what put pupils off. If you respond to your pupil's needs, any music will turn into a rewarding experience (for both pupil and teacher).

Interesting responses.

"angry" might be a strong word. "Very bugged" is more accurate.

I started learning myself about 9 months ago. I'm surrounded by people who had piano lessons for years, but can't play a single song on the piano, and even with music can barely work through it.

I'm not claiming to be a concert pianist, but I can sit down and create music without reading sheet music. I can sight read songs and make them sound half decent.

The numbers I threw out are from my simple observation only. The difference is that I can play, they can't. I "play" the piano while they "practice" the piano. And most of all, I enjoy it, they tolerate(d) and endure(d) it.

The other difference is probably that most of us that are here are here because we're seeking knowledge about the piano and enjoy it. No matter how we got here we enjoy it. So the "sample" is tainted that way. The ones that took lessons for years, never learned to play, and hated it won't be heard on this forum. Anyway, interesting thoughts.

Sounds like you'd make a good teacher Noob!! :p


Lee

I don't know, it sounds in your original post like you're assuming everyone shares your opinion. You may not really like classical music, personally though, I'm 17 years old and I absolutely adore classical music, I have friends who like classical music as well. Maybe concert music is a more workable term, beacuse I also like to improvise and compose, but classical training helps me immensely there too. I'm more than happy at the existence of classical teachers, and I think it's important as well to be grounded in that sort of thing.

I do agree though, that there needs to be a different way to get kids to approach music. I mean, I teach my little sister to play easy stuff that builds her ability, but also sounds good and is fun for her to play (example, "The Little Shepherd"). Whereas a friend of mine gave up piano after a short while because he was forced to play those short, very repetitive "pieces", which are basically thinly veiled scales, for many months, and grew tired of it.

I believe piano teachers today are more sensitive to their students needs if you can present them with some concrete (but attainable) goals which is easier than planning a goal such as "I want to master Canon in D" in one year or less. I viewed the Piano adventure series for children last night and I am amazed that they are suggesting teachers incorporate fun and creativity in their lessons. And I believe the children and youth will stick with the instrument longer. But you have to shop around and interview as many teachers as possible and select the instructor that you most feel comfortable working with.

- Mark
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...The ultimate joy in music is the joy of playing the piano...

My experience is that there is nothing stopping anyone from learning to play a different style. It's nothing unusual for me to go from playing stride blues to Billy Joel to a Beethoven sonata in one session at the piano. And in my life I've had exactly NO piano lessons (12 years of classical organ helps though). Because of this I feel no compunction to play "like this" or in a particular style. Play what makes you happy, don't feel cheapened if you use a chord, because if you aren't having fun you shouldn't be there.

<quote>I thought that you had valuable evidence to disprove that the author of this thread ... battling pianoNoob ... was wrong in suggesting
“It seems that 95% of the teachers teach classical piano, which is what about 5% of the piano players want.”</quote>

PianoNoob also never used any evidence. Why aren't you asking for sources from him? I'm just saying that he shouldn't be using numbers if he's just pulling them from nowhere.

A thread on an internet forum doesn't prove anything. Neither you nor PianoNoob has provided any scientific evidence that classical music is "scaring" kids away from the piano. It's obvious you guys are biased.

I'm kind of one of those people. Unless it's before a recital or I'm recording, I rarely have a song that I can just sit down at the piano without the music. Does that mean that I don't enjoy playing? heck no. To some people, the journey is more important (and more fun) then the destination.

You're making false assumptions that just because you can play though a song and another person can't, that you enjoy playing more than that person.

PianoNoob,

When you come to the piano for the first time, at whatever age, you approach it in your unique way. Some would want/need a book and instruction to play the first note, not knowing how and where to begin. These are careful, obedient, people who want to do it "right" (concrete/sequential). Over time, they acquire skills which add to their natural talents. They are not necessarily acquiring understanding.

Then the (random/abstract) person would confidently explore the notes and sound, apply rhythms, try to pick out a familiar tune, have a good time begin "creative", taking risks. He doesn't always seek a teacher because the exploration on his own is important to him and a feeling of accomplishment. This person, too, is not acquiring too much in the way of understanding of theory. The question of inhibited/uninhibited which I started my comments with, speaks volumes.

Approaches to learning are varied. The classical method is more cerebral and analytical if you study the theory. The pop/jazz/improvisation gets a lot of sound going through creativity and emotions from within - usually little or no theory understanding - because the rules/facts of theory aren't necessary to play the music.

Either person might be unable to cross over to the other genre. It doesn't make sense to me that you get so verbal about the different approaches, learning styles, outcomes, the experiences. You've got yours all figured out, and you are "happy" with how you got there and what you can do. It's not the end of the road for you. There is always more to learn.

Now, PianoNoob, can you do the impossible, and get yourself through a classical music program and come out successfully on the other side? I challenge you! Let's ask you to prove you can do it. (It's a mighty row to hoe.)

I think that all the floundering people who are tolerating and enduring it, as you say, should get themselves out of the method books, find a teacher who will instruct the individual using their expertise in knowing pedagogy and syllabus to give a first rate education at the piano. The piano methods are for everyone and anyone and no one in particular. Get quickly beyond the basic notation, and you're off and running.

I would like you to tell us how you got there, rather than use the "ammunition" you think you have about how it is out there in the piano teaching world.

You are on the outside looking in, and while you think you have found some issues to expound upon, you are not looking at the successful outcomes of a great relationship between teacher and student that is working.

Don't waste your time with your criticism, use it to invent your own teaching system, if you can. There may be others like you who think outside the box who would be forever grateful to you for that. Challenge #2.

Someone else suggested you being a teacher, I say prepare yourself, and do it.

With regards!

Betty