Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Are the adult beginners here even interested in classical music?

Hello everyone.

I am a student living in Canada. Piano is my one true passion. I am currently developing an online lesson website that will teach you from the ground up all the basic theory knowledge required to play classical piano. From what I've seen there will be nothing like it on the internet currently.

However I'm curious, after watching many youtube videos and looking at many websites I realized that people who are interested in self learning piano are not interested in classical music. But with simple, chords, pop "songs" like Elton John or Maria Carie, and simple jazz melodies.

Now I'm wondering, am I just wasting my time? Will people just be bored by my website and skip to to other websites that teach them pop songs? Or are there actually people out their who wish to learn classical piano the Traditional way, but don't have the time or money to find a teacher, these are the people who my website will benefit! But do they only exist in minuscule numbers?

Any thoughts? Thanks!

You mean.., you know how to teach classical piano the PROPER way?

If you visit the Pianist Corner forum, I'd venture to guess that 95% of the members who regularly participate there are classical enthusiasts. I hardly post there, because often times, I haven't a clue what they're talking about. Most of them seem like non beginners, but would say that wasn't always the case. So if you're asking if there is a market for people wanting to learn beginning classical piano, I would say yes.

Perhaps you have stumbled upon an underserved niche market that might be a good opportunity for you.

i say go for it. I'll take a look & be grateful.

in the meantime, it is fun to just play around with sounds also.

In my opinion no person’s taste in music, not even an ancestral drumbeat, should be referred to as a mindless easy fix. It is my experience that self-professed teachers who speak condescendingly of popular forms of music know very little about music and should not be teaching the subject. The irony is that what is often described as classical music is really popular music from a different era, as exemplified by the thousands of people who attended Beethoven’s funeral. He was a rock star in his time. Besides, strictly speaking the classical era is only the period between 1750 and 1825. My own preferences are in the romantic and impressionistic eras, which came later. Am I just out for a mindless, easy fix?
It is my experience that most of the piano method books used by self-learners do contain a considerable amount of classical material. Almost every one contains the theme from Beethoven’s Ode to Joy in the very early lessons. In fact, I am a self-learner, and the method that I follow, which I consider to be quite typical, contains pieces from all eras by Bach, Mozart, Handel, Beethoven, Chopin, Strauss, Haydn, Massenet, Burgmuller, Kabalevsky, Dvorak, Schumann, Bizet, Pieczonka, Liszt, Rimsky Korsakoff, Bartok, Tschaikowsky, Rachmaninoff, Stravinsky, and many more. It also includes some more contemporary popular and jazz pieces. I think all of it is wonderful music. My only regret is that most of this material is still beyond my playing ability - but I’m working on it.

Perhaps I’m not learning the PROPER way? I encourage you to setup your website so I can learn what that really means.

Yes and Yes.

As someone who has been listening to and enjoying many different kinds of music for many years let me tell you that there is as much, if not more, "mindless" Classical music as there is "mindless" pop music. But more importantly, there's alot of good music in both categories (and many other genres that we like to play on the piano). You definitely need to open your ears and mind and broaden your musical horizons!
Good Gravy!

Regards, JF

I'm actually eighteen - so I may be on the borderline of being an "adult".

I'm actually quite an enthusiast of all classical music. I really enjoy studying the history and development of music through the times. So, about three months ago, I made it a goal to learn how to play the stuff to gain a better understanding of what was going on (and maybe learn a thing or two about virtuosity, down the line). So I did hire a teacher and we've been working since.

I have heard quite a bit of popular piano - I can see why it is appealing to a lot of people since it is easy to listen to. There is usually a very simple theme which is repeated and developed slightly throughout the entire piece. But I personally do not like this style for this very reason - it sounds repetitive. Additionally, I'm a little hard pressed to find any variety in the genre, unlike classical, where many composers of each genre are doing their own thing (taking in mind, of course, that there are other lesser-known composers which are just copycats).

So, to give a short answer to your question, I am working very hard at the piano because I love the classical genre.


EDIT:

I wanted to add, briefly, that I am not attacking lovers of popular music. Please do not take it that way.

I would not say that it's completely true that adult beginners are uninterested in classical music.
I am an adult beginner and I prefer classical music. I would rather play just about anything other than "Erie Canal" or "The Entertainer". I got enough of that crap being in band for 5 years.

By the way, I have a large selection of adult beginner books and classical selections are definitely in the minority. Perhaps it's become a misconception that adult beginners prefer popular tunes.

A far as contemporary pinao, some of it is quite lovely---but basically for adult beginners , they stick you with "Over the Waves" and "Down in the Valley". BOO!

Classical Player, I noticed that you're in the "1,000 Post Club" and that you spend most of your time in the Pianist's Corner. You might want to visit the ABF more often, and listen to our monthly "piano bars" and quarterly recitals, to gain a better appreciation for the variety of music that adult beginners enjoy.

FYI, our upcoming May 15 recital has 23 entries so far, including performances of Liszt, Chopin, Haydn, Beethoven, Grieg, Diabelli, Mayer ... All "classical" composers, to use that term in the way in which you seem to intend it: i.e., not popular/modern music.

I'd be interested in visiting your theory-teaching site when it's up. If it's as unique as you say, it could be a great addition to other online tools and venues. Are you planning to offer the content to visitors for free, or is this a profit-making venture?

it's not that people who're interested in classical don't like taking lessons online, but online learning is a relatively new thing and people are not customed to it yet.

have anyone ever visited Wiziq site?

http://www.wiziq.com/

which has online classroom with video and audio live transmission capacity and a white board to write on or upload pdf files (including music score), quite good. even though 2 way video screens are small, but audio quality is fantasitc. i tested it with my teacher and everything turns out good. my teacher is open to online teaching as well. in case he leaves here (which seems inevitable in near future), i would be able to take lessons online with him again.

btw, i'm only interested in classical, and if my teacher finds such online learning thing is doable, yours would be too. it's just going to take some time for some people to actually try it.

I am an adult beginner - started a year ago at age 61.

I am almost exclusively interested in classical music.

If my memory serves me right, Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony goes something like this “Ta, ta, ta, tuummm.” about a million times. It is exactly as you say, “a very simple theme which is repeated and developed slightly throughout the entire piece.” Yet most people would call this a “Classical Piece”, not a popular one. I bring up this example not to criticize your taste in music, or to brag about my own. But rather I want to make the point that many of the techniques of one genre (like repetition for example) are common to both classical and popular compositions. Indeed, they are not techniques of any particular genre at all. They are simply techniques of music, and in each case they can be done well or done very badly. I like the point that JohnFrank! made, that there is good and bad music in all genres. When you consider the millions of pieces that were written and the relatively few that remain in the popular repertoire, I guess you'd be forced to admit that most of the music that was ever written in all genres is of a pretty poor quality.

Repetition is of course a very important concept in music. Some of the greatest pieces of music repeat a particular theme throughout, each time with slight variation. A Chopin Nocturne would not be a Chopin Nocturne if each section had no resemblance to any of the others. You might not prefer popular music, but to explain your preference I would look for a different reason besides repetition of a simple theme. Indeed, repetition is a commonly used technique in the very genre of music that you claim to prefer.

I think the reason this thread is attracting attention is because music instills such deep feelings in all of us, feelings that are very close to our emotional hearts. It is natural for us to identify with our favorite pieces of music, sometimes to the point that we believe them to be a part of ourselves. That is why I think it’s prudent to refrain from using descriptive terms that are condescending when comparing the different genres. Calling the music anyone listens to crap (as liszt's pinky did) is like calling them crap , and I don’t think anyone would like that. And of course it is only fair to not stereotype one particular genre as having particular techniques when in reality those techniques are common to all music.

Like you, and like “Classical Player” who started this thread, I listen more to what most people generally refer to as “Classical” music than to other genres. So, we all share the same musical interests. However, we don't share the same philosophical reasons for our mutual appreciation.

Out of curiosity I checked the Michael Aaron, Adult Piano Course, Book 1. It has beginner level arrangements of “Waves of the Danube” (often called Danube Waves) by Inanovici, Leibestraume by Liszt (you should like that one), and Romance by Rubinstein. What’s wrong with that? Of course it has some popular pieces as well, and in my opinion so it should. And, how many method books have the JS Back Minuet in G Major? Plenty. Check out “Progressive Class Piano, A Practical Approach for the Older Beginner”, by Elmer Heerema (an Alfred publication). Yes, there are other method books, like the Alfred Basic Adult Piano Course, which is so popular at this site, that contain less Classical themes. You may be correct when you say that most method books are non-classical. Perhaps I've tended to collect the more classical oriented ones because of my own interests. Thankfully classical method books are still numerous enough to satisfy my needs.

Besides, who says a beginning student, like myself, should restrict themselves to a single method book. I have often used the following site for extra repertoire:

Gilbert DeBenedetti’s site

Many of the themes are classical. The site allows you to listen to each piece being properly played and you can download the sheet music for free. Several pieces appear more than once, each time arranged for a more advanced level student. What’s wrong with that? It's called progressive learning. Yes, he also has the piece “The Entertainer”. But hey, who’s telling you to play it? And who’s forcing you to hear me play it?

My personal feeling is that most method books, including the one that I am following (which as I posted earlier has a very extensive classical and popular repertoire), progress much too quickly. In order to develop real skill, I feel I need much more exposure to a variety of repertoire at each level. For example, recently I have been working on the Clementi set of six sonatinas on the advice that doing so will improve my playing skill.

By the way, I never heard of “Over the Waves”. Could it be the same piece that I mentioned earlier called “Danube Waves”? If so, come on. That’s not so bad, is it?

Reffering to someone else's taste in music as "mindless pop songs to satisfy an easy fix" has got to be just about the most disrespectful statement I have ever read on this forum.

Why don't you just come out and say "if you don't like what I do, your an idiot"!.

Come on man, this is a place where everyone RESPECTS each others choices and genres of music because we all share a common love for playing the piano while expressing our love for it through the various styles of msuic we play.

The nice thing about the ABF is that we DO have numerous styles of music represented here, not just "vanilla"!.

Variety is the spice of life!, have some tollerance (and respect) for others or take a hike!

Btw, you refer to Elton John as only being able to play simplistic chords and melodies. I've just gotta ask, are you on crack or something?.

You almost refer to Elton as being an untalented hack capable of only constructing the most simplistic chords and melodies. Please excuse my not finishing my thoughts as I have this uncontrollable urge to go beat my head against the wall for some reason! . Maybe someone else with a bit more tact can finish my reply as I'm probably going to regret what I post if I continue.

I hope to play some mindless pop songs some day...

Pop songs are mindless??? WHAT?? Why have I not been told this before now?

Everyone here knows I am mindless, yet no one would bother to tell me there is music out there designed for me!!!

I am very disappointed in all of you, keeping this from me.

Now, I must go and find my calling....

OK, let's do this right. From where I sit, the only music worth listening to is the music I listen to. You people (guys and gals) now have to guess what kind(s) of music I listen to so you will know what kind(s) music is (are) worth listening to.

If there really is merit to what I have said (i.e. there is a Universal Truth behind this claim), then you will all have no trouble guessing what kind(s) of music I listen to, and will therefore all guess the same kind(s) of music, which implies we will all be in agreement as to what music merits our time.

I sincerely hope you get it right!! If not, then we will all have to agree to put this line of reasoning to bed once and for all.

Tony

In response of Orez,

Yes, I am familiar with Beethoven's Fifth. I did use an important qualifier: "slightly".

I think that the motif in the Fifth is varied in so many ways; it is interesting to try to follow them all. My point was that a lot of popular piano just doesn't really change in ways that I find interesting - maybe "too easy" to follow.

Again, in light of other responses to this thread, I want to reiterate that this is my PERSONAL opinion, and everything I have stated so far are just reasons why I prefer one form over another.

You must be kidding, right?

I would say that half of us are. Not to say that many of us like other genre also. I'm a big fan of the golden oldies, for instance...because I am a golden oldie.

But my heart belongs to Chopin as my name implies.

You might notice that the Chopin thread is close to 4,000 posts. Right here on the Adult BEGINNERS'S forum. I believe it is the biggest thread going...anywhere. That, alone, should answer your question.

Kathleen

I can understand Classical player's concerns about the type of music people want to learn. A lot of people quit piano lessons after a year or two due to doing nothing but scales, and all they wanted to do is make music. This issue lead to people like Scott Houston and others (btw I would of never touched a piano if it wasn't for him).

There are some beautiful popular pieces as well like Dan Hill's "Sometimes when we touch" which I want to play, as well as the songs by Air Supply. I will need to work out the fingerings as the music is written in Classical notation to enable a pianist to play the same hits.

I believe people quit due to the inability to make music on a piano, and this lead to courses by Scott and others featured on PBS (in the states) and other outlets.

Come listen to the piano bar we have in this forum (as Deborah has suggested). And Monica Kern is putting together our quarterly recital (occurs this month) we have every three months. You will be amazed of the quality of musicianship. Stop by there, you will be pleasantly surprised!

- Mark