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i'd love to listen to some examples of these different approaches. do you have any on line?

jazzwee - it's time for a reality check here. I have just recorded my charleston LH along with the AL melody. I know that one of these days (months, years!!!), I will need to add my LH while I solo.

On that note, am I on time with my LH? If so, I will continue to practice at 140 bpm. If I'm not on that solid as a rock time, I'll practice slowly once again.

I can’t yet put in any swingy type RH notes when I do this LH charleston. The best I could do was try to detach the RH quarter notes.

I'm not quite sure how I need to progress with my LH. I am assuming that the goal here is to get the charleston LH on auto pilot.

So, if I am on a solid LH time, should I now:

1. try to add some more swingy notes in the RH (deviate a bit from the written melody) while keeping a charleston LH going?

Or

2. just keep on doing charleston with the simple written RH.

http://www.box.net/shared/252k8xu04w

Jeez, I'm over here toiling away trying to get my chord tones to land on downbeats and people are bashing our thread and our tireless leader. As my 8 year old daughter would say "What-evs". Best not to even dignify this stuff. Jazzwee, you get from me too.

I've been working on the tips from lesson 11. It has been really tough. I made a few attempts at recording something last night, but they were too horrendous. Whenever I hit the record button, my playing always seems to rachet down a notch. I think I'm getting close. Maybe another night of practice.

Barb, your rhythm sounded pretty solid to me. Sounded to me like your &'s were falling really late in the beat which I think is what you want. Nice work.

Thanks, deeluk. I'll have to wait for our rhythm expert, tho, to get the final word as to whether I'm rock solid.

Re: recording. I used to hate it with a passion. I decided to cure my recording phobia by recording often. I recorded all the time until it just didn't bother me any more.

Lesson 11 - yes, quite challenging. I'm looking forward to you posting something.

Someone rated me and this thread a 1. So obviously someone was unhappy with this thread. As you know, a thread was already started criticizing us because we don't use sheet music. I have no idea if the 'little child' that rated us is in the same camp or not but if someone out there is unhappy with what were doing here, then SPEAK UP LIKE AN ADULT.

I can tell you guys that the Jazz pros/teachers that have been visiting this thread has only good things to say. So I truly doubt any jazzer would do this. Maybe it's another dummy who's telling us that Keith Jarrett needs to improvise with sheet music.

That is SO GOOD Barb! It's pretty rock solid to me. Amazing job.

For improvement now, I will now suggest to 'leave' that rock solid time and give it more of a groove. To do this, learn to relax the RH and drag it just ever so slightly behind the beat. Don't alter the LH. It's perfect. This is very advanced now. I wonder if you can even hear me do it on the combo melody. You'd have to listen carefully to detect it but after a while it is more of a relaxed feel.

You and me both So the solution is always to master it at a higher level. It seems that we need that reserve to counteract the self-consciousness. To perform at 100%, you need to know the subject matter at 150%.

Just so you know Deeluk, this isn't easy to do. I don't know what makes you think you can do this in a couple of days

Let me make a suggestion to make it easier. Don't worry about it so much but record to see HOW MANY times you land on a chord tone. Meaning ignore the few times that it didn't work out. Can you at least land on a chord on beat 1? You were doing that already on your first try because you were landing on the 3rd.

So from there use only one technique at a time (like stepwise movements, which is the easiest).

The hardest to synch are chord arpeggios unless you arrive at some pattern in advance (not a bad idea at first) so you hear how it sounds like. Work out a few different patterns.

Be patient.

Thank you, jazzwee. I'll breath easy now.

I do detect that relaxed feel when you play. That's what I am after here. I love that sound and have noticed it while listening to the pros.

So, I'll play Charleston in my LH and try to play the RH as if I just had a few stiff drinks

Quick question on Lesson 11. Chord tones with long notes was not a problem for me. Doing it as mostly eighth notes for lesson 11, I notice that I sometimes anticipate the next measure and I play a note on the & of 4 that is a chord tone for the next measure, but, it is not a chord tone for the current measure.

Example:

First measure is Am7. I may play the D on the & of 4 (next measure is a D7.)

So, is this allowed in the first assignment of lesson 11 having to do with using Chord tones only?

Barb, typically when using the Bebop scale you play going up and down. When you reverse direction over the extra tone in the Bebop scale, that's when the synching happens.

The other approach that I practiced a lot myself is to repeat a note or execute a pattern that will synch me up a note. Here's a couple of examples (I'm not at a piano so hopefully it will be correct):


Example 1:
(Stepwise movements unless otherwise indicated...)

Am7

C B C D E D C (skip) E

D7
D C D E F# G A (skip) F#

GMaj7
G...


Example 2:

(Repeated Note Example)
Am7

C B C D E D C C

D7
D C D E F# G A A

GMaj7
G...


You see the problem I encountered when I initially did this was that my fingers automatically moved and it really wasn't connected to the tones I was hearing so this was a mechanical way to synch.

But after a year or so of practicing this, what happened is that I began to select notes based on their tone, and my fingers were just following. I was so glad when it happened because for moment there I doubted if I was musical. And for whatever reason, these moves that I practiced are no longer necessary. I think the tone bridging (to get to a target tone) based on working this out logically eliminated at least the effect of fingers getting in the way.

I was not taught this BTW, this stuff I just developed on my own.

Well, I didn't mean I'd master it in a few days. Just that I hope to get something that I could bring myself to post here.
Yup. I started doing this. I wondered if by doing so, I was "cheating". Plus, it gets very repetitive playing the same lick over and over. So, after I rapped myself across the knuckles, I started trying to vary my patterns. For instance, I'll think OK, start with an eighth note run and then do a half-eighth stab on the next chord. Then a chord arp. Another chord arp... etc. Then, the next time through, I'd start with quarter note chord tones, then a run, a long note, etc.

I seem to be stuck in a pattern. I can hear every other chord change. So, I have to pray the note I end on works for the "next" chord. For instance, I play something over Am and end on A. Luckily that works for the D7 coming next. Then I play over the Gmaj but I don't "hear" the Cmaj. The Fm7b5 is loud and clear, but the B7b9 isn't. The Em is easy to pick out. So, I've been trying to work on this as well. I'll play a few times through just arp'ing each chord.

I'm not up to soloing but I recorded Autumn leaves with a swing feel(I tried) and variation.

I just bought a mixer so here's AL with piano and sound module.

http://www.box.net/shared/pq6si2y0oo

I also practice 2-5-1 voicing in all keys with exercice from Keyboard Harmony book.

Serge

Deeluk, I think I spotted your problem. Don't look at just the one chord, look at each ii-V-I formation as a group since they typically follow the same scale.

What you have to practice to avoid is starting your lines at Beat 1 of each chord. Start off with starting on the & of 4. This forces you to think in a less boxed in way. Don't look at the chords boxing you in. In other words, work out the connection patterns from chord to chord (see my answer to Barb for examples).

It's a bit like sightreading ahead I suppose (although this one you can do with your eyes closed).

Nice job Serge (nice piano sound too!).

I personally think you're ready for soloing. You're the first person here to actually improvise but you just pulled back. Listen to everyone on their first solo and then listen again to the latest solos and you can see the improvement just from working it out.

Keep posting your progress Serge! You're sounding great.

You could work on the Charleston LH next (RH sounds perfect).

Gee Whiz, what's not to like about this thread? I can't imagine why anyone would down rate it. This is just the best information we are getting and a fun group to be with. Why would anyone care anyway, if they didn't want to do it they could just not participate??? and also Deeluk for trying to help me with my recording problems. What's not to like in this thread???
Alene

Hi Serge: That sounded great ...doesn't sound like you have any problems to me
Alene

Thank you, Alene. All of you inspire me to keep plugging away. I love the group effort here-- Hugs to you all

I agree with you - those who don't like jazz can just stay away.

Oh yes you are, Serge. I just listened to you.

Your left hand can take a vacation. Play just the right hand and let your cool back up group do the rest. You need to dive in and try it. Total fun, I say.

Serge, nice work. I like your backing track. It's so much fun practicing with a "band". I think I need to fire my bass player though... I say you should try out the RH only soloing too. You were adding quite a bit of embellishment there. Solo is just a small step away from that.

Alene, have you had any luck with your sequencer? PM me if you need any more help (not that I helped all that much). I think it's a great tool that'll let you ease into improv with just the RH.

I can't believe someone would be so against the concepts here. At worst, it's just fun to noddle with. At best, it allows us to peer into, how did Chris put it, "a pure American art form" while learning some theory and technique along the way.

It's absolutely harmless and in no way was it ever stated or implied that it should replace reading music.

My only regret is that I can't seem to free up enough time lately to participate more!

Hi,

I've not posted for awhile, so need to catch up. It's amazing, how the subject has mushroomed. I have postings still to read!

Jazzwee, this success is mainly down to your tireless effort in taking us by the reins, explaining succinctly the methods required & in a favourable order, that I personally have not found in books. You also have a pleasant & effective way of dealing with our musical offerings, which is pertinent & extremely helpful. However, that may now change, as I am rendering my poor attempt at a part solo & part melody, the latter with rootless voicings;

http://www.box.net/shared/n6ronjn4o4

It is only done over the first 16 bars. I can recognise there is a lot wrong with it (simply looking at a midi file afterwards portrays timing errors), but I await your more expert conclusions & suggestions.

This is my first attempt to solo, so I do not know, if I am approaching it correctly. Next time, I may try & put the notes down on paper first, as it is difficult to play on the fly. Even if I find an interesting pattern, I find it difficult to remember. I also confess to a number of attempts to record this one. I experience the same problems already asserted by others.

I find the soloing difficult, although I understand the theory somewhat. I wish, I could sing phrases on the fly, but I have poor pitch, so I have not really tried to sing during my lifetime. Well, perhaps, very rarely in the bath, if no one was around! Anyways, no one said it would be easy. And that's why it's so fun.

The progress of others is moving in leaps & bounds, which is very encouraging. Keep up the good work everyone & ignore the lone voice of dissent.