Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.

Nice RH Bluekeys! You certainly got that licked.

Regarding Classical vs. Pop, I never studied Classical (at least not with a teacher). The chops issue is the same in either style, as I discovered when playing classical.

Perhaps what we can contribute here is improvisation. Just look at everyone's excitement once they actually started to improvise. It's a bug let me tell you. Some people will just be driven by it.

So if the bug hits you, we're here...

I did a YouTube search. I believe this is it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-3x-dSHKew

The circle of fifths was first described by Johann David Heinichen, in his 1728 treatise Der Generalbass in der Composition.
Not sure if it was in the autumn though . . . :p
Sorry couldn't resist that one!
Yeah, the circle has been around for quite some time, it's an extremely important discovery, Mozart got it from his studies of course, he like so many others at his time learned it by studying the masters; like Bach. (Mozart was a huge fan of Bach).
I'll post 16 bars from a rondo by Mozart tomorrow, it's incredible, sounds like song Michel Legrand wrote, or an improv by KJ.

The CoF is really really important to study and learn.

Solo tip:
Something that jazz soloists use is patterns. Patterns are mixed in with scales, arpeggios, licks, etc.
Practicing patterns is a good aid for soloing, but it can make a solo fall on it's feet if used to much.

A pattern could be something like this:

and applied to AL:

another way to use this pattern in creating one's own exercises:


This pattern is known as 1-2-3-1
(as always, swing the eight notes):

Yep. That's the right one

Pretty easy to transcribe, right Barb?

If I look at my playing in general, I'm a bit sloppy about holding notes to full value or placing them exactly where they need to be.

Just for clarification, are most of my LH stabs on target with only a few missteps? I just am making sure I'm not completely wacked on hearing the &2 upbeat!

Here's another quote, "it is no trivial feat becoming your own metronome!"

stegerson, your LH was consistent so your time was good. But it's just in the wrong spot. So like I said tap or even count aloud while you do it. Just listen to your recording while counting aloud and the positioning will be obvious to you. So from Beat 1, Beat 2, to Beat 1+ is not correct. Correct way is 1, 2+, repeat...

As far as hold notes, etc., that's phrasing and this does not come automatically. It's like a new language. It only comes from regular practice and listening so you hear lines that way. So I wouldn't worry about that side. I thought your RH was very good.

You gave me a hefty assignment, jazzwee. Transcribing will have to stay on the back burner for a while.

What I like doing, before I transcribe anything, is to listen until I can sing the part. So, I'll be doing a lot of listening when I'm not working on all those solo tips.

Barb and others, I just want to add something that hasn't been said. So far, I've just told you to solo using the G Major Scale, Chord Tones, and neighbors, which is a very simplified concept.

Later on we will discuss in much more detail what scales can actually be played for each chord. This can be much more complex and I'm afraid offers a multitude more of note choices. As you can see you can come up with good solos using the simple concepts I've discussed.

When playing more complex Jazz tunes like Stella by Starlight, All the Things That You Are, Dolphin Dance, Invitation, Giant Steps and so on, simply addressing soloing as chord tones isn't going to work too well. The reason for this is the constant modulation of key. In many tunes, you're only in a key for one bar. In this case, the theory helps one visualize the scale choices to generate some structure to the solo.

Fortunately, AL is simple enough that it can be be played with one scale. The Blues is also simple enough but beyond this a lot of knowledge of scales will be necessary.

But that's for later...

One just can't noodle jazz and you're learning the basic thought processes to creating good solos...

As promised. 4 bars of Mozart. No notes have been added. The phrasing is all Mozart's. This is from a rondo composed (I would say improvised) 1786. Check out the melody notes, just as Jazzwee has described to you earlier. (I've added the chord analysis). It's in the key of Fm (Ab).


Also; check out the pattern M uses: 1-3-2-1 and how it connects to the ninth of the chord.

Ok. Here's in the key of Em (AL):

Chris - Very cool indeed That was definitely an eye opener. Sounds great over Autumn Leaves. Thank you for sharing.

Let's try this:

http://www.box.net/shared/f5ys0fack4

I finally input the song by hand into Anvil so I could hear it the pattern very clearly.

Even if this isn't 100%, I plan on trying some of the other lessons this weekend for diversity sake.

I really appreciate this thread!

You're getting close Stegerson but it's actually not bad even the way it is. RH is PERFECT. So no issues there.

This is how you see what you're doing. Starting counting 1234 on the word 'Leaves'. And then listen to where your chord comping lands.

I hear it at 1 and 3. Sometimes at 1 and almost 3+, but this variation could just be because we don't have a metronome going. This comping style is fine but the 2+ gives it that off time swing. You don't have the 1+ issue from before now so you're almost perfect with this.

You need to tap your fingers as I laid out in an earlier post to clearly see where the LH has to be offset from 2.

Here's another approach I'm going to invent for you right now.

Say: Chick-Chick-A-Chick-Chick, (repeat). While you're doing this tap an even 1234 with your RH.

Kind of like the sound of the Drum Hi-Hat. Hit the chord on the bolded word. You can't do this in isolation. It's the relationship with the RH that embeds it into your memory and is also a hand independence thing.

Ted, you can practice this simultaneously while going into other lessons. No need to just work on this. And you're really close here.

Ted - Let me pass on a little practice trick I did for that LH rhythm.

Set the metronome to 120, or slower (I think I set it to 80 when I first started). The clicks will be for eighth notes. So, there would be 8 clicks per measure - 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & .

The LH will strike on click 1 and 4. Of course, you will be playing twice as slow as what you are doing now, but, at least the left hand will get used to striking at the correct moment.

Then, keep increasing that metronome speed and gradually set it for quarter notes. If your eighth note speed was 120, then set the quarter notes for 60. If all goes well, inch it up to your normal speed of 120.

Hope this doesn't sound too confusing. This is the approach I took.

Hi gang: This is my first attempt at a solo improv so looking for some more guidance before I keep practicing in the wrong way maybe.

I used the rhythm section but played the shells in my left hand and improvised with the right. I'm not sure this is what I'm supposed to be doing so can use all the help I can get. :rolleyes:

http://www.box.net/shared/brahk1hs80
Thanks!
Alene

Good for you Alene - Welcome to solo land. I have not yet added the left hand when I improvise. Right hand by itself is challenging enough. You are definitely brave to try it hands together.

Keep up the good work

ps I'm sure jazzwee will give you a bunch of great tips.

OK, finally back in business generating MP3s. Here's the track I've been using to practice RH only improv. It's a smorgasbord of practice sessions. This one has 2+3 chords on a tonewheel organ in the background with my improv over the top. I intend to add some rootless practice comping in there as well. Anyway, my latest improv attempt trying to incorporate more of the ideas here.

http://www.box.net/shared/oaxda5lsk8

Alene, very nice! Another true improvisation! Good job!

OK how do we improve this? First is it possible to record the LH comping and rhythm so you're just doing your right hand? That would be better. When soloing, especially early on, the LH isn't necessary. Usually you have to be advanced to actually solo with the LH going.

When you record next time, see if you lower the volume of the Rhythm section so the melody on the RH sticks out.

Now you forgot to accent your offbeat eight notes so the swing disappeared. I know, you're busy concentrating on the notes but try to maintain those accents.

Then give it another try. This time with full attention to the RH.

It's really exciting when you guys improve 100% with every attempt. It's amazing. At this pace, you'll see major development in short time.

I see you're getting more confident here Deeluk. You are all hanging together here development wise.

So now it's time to attempt what Barb did which is to shift to using Chord Tones. 1,3,5,7 of each chord. Use only those for now.

Next don't forget to accent the eighth note offbeat.

Another thing that I want you to try, is do not start your phrase on beat 1 of each chord. Try doing it on the beat before (beat 4 or beat 4+), referred to as a pickup note. This is important advice because the phrases will feel boxy if started always on the first beat. Occasionally it's fine but repeatedly, it will sound boring.

Good job Deeluk. Gotta put that expensive synth/workstation to use

Thanks Jazzwee and Barb for your comments and now I know what to work on.

Everyone is doing fantastic and just hope I can learn this too.
Alene