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Nice going Barb.

http://www.box.net/shared/ym0vg6xc8w

:rolleyes: I tried to 'swing' mine but it sounds kinda funny cuz I tried to accent the 2+ and 4+ also.

I only did A section to make sure I am on the right track before continuing.

Q: When we hit that 2nd beat of LH Charleston, is it supposed to come down slightly after the swing of the 2+ of the RH or do they come down together at the same time?

Rosa

Hi Rosa, you need to accent EVERY +. Not just 2+ and 4+. So it's every other beat.

Again the reason we do this is because this scale exercise is made up of 8th notes. Handling of Eighth notes (swing) is the biggest difference between jazz styling and classical.

If you can do it, it's better to practice this faster because it's hard to swing playing at 60bpm. Shoot for over 100bpm.

Don't over exaggerate the oompah-oompah so much. That's what we've been referring to as the swing ratio where one note is longer than the other (the downbeat being longer than the upbeat). As in discussions earlier, you will learn what a good ratio is of upbeat and downbeat based on your own preference later. But concentrate mostly on the accent.

This is a technique issue BTW. It is hard to develop the control to make notes swing consistently to the point of being automatic. There might even be arm strain for some because of overpushing on those accents.

Please feel free to practice RH only. Or LH can do Whole Notes. It's pretty hard to think of Charleston on the LH and Swing on the RH initially. Perfect each one inpendently first.

Here we are again - Day 2 --- many more hours of practice have been put in. It's a bit faster (at 80), plus I have added that swing. My mind kept saying to accent the offbeat and to lighten up that left hand beat 1. Funny how the mind can be thinking all of these things, but the finished product doesn't always sound as it should.

http://www.box.net/shared/qb6btmaskk

As always, feedback is most welcome.

Hey Rosa - thanks for posting. I'm glad you are tackling this project. I no longer feel so alone!

Not bad Barb! Not bad at all! You deserve the name Swingin' Barb.

So just shoot for a tempo over 100bpm. You have to get to the point where 150bpm is an 'average tempo'. Don't rush to get there since technique has to be built. As I mentioned before, as you play faster, the swing becomes less but the accent continues and then at 200bpm, there's no longer accenting as it starts to sound like 16th's.

A good medium tempo for Autumn Leaves is somewhere around 120bpm.

Keep practicing this you don't have to think about your swing. BTW listen to Bill Evans swing and it's just what you're doing but at a tempo of 150-180bpm.

Thank you, jazzweee. Funny you should mention Bill Evans. I do listen to him a lot. I've been thinking of him as I play this little scale exercise. The scale passage over the harmony reminds me of something he would play.I guess that is what has kept me glued to this exercise.

Yes, I'll be working up the speed on this exercise. Then I will tackle Autumn Leaves with RH swing and this LH comping rhythm. For some reason, it is easier for me to get the technique down with an exercise such as this one, as opposed to jumping into AL. But, I WILL get there!

BTW, this past summer my husband and I attended the Jamey Aebersold week long workshop. One of the piano instructors there had taken lessons with Bill Evans.

Barb, both you and your husband are doing piano jazz? In any case, having the hubby join you makes this a more fun experience.

The instructors at Aebersold are a Who's Who list so I'm sure they were all good.

BTW some of the stuff on this thread is meant to be practiced simultaneously. Like Swing is really something practiced continuously and for the longer term, regardless of what the tune is.

Another are the Walking Bass, 2+3 voicings, Rootless voicings. And not necessarily practiced over Autumn Leaves. Walking Bass for example, is easier to practice over a Blues progression.

Jazzwee - Those piano instructors at Aebersold were a bit mind blowing. During one of the master classes, you would think it was Bill Evans himself playing "My Romance"

My hubby is a jazz vibist. We plan on playing "out" together. I'm in the process of playing catch up with him. So glad this thread is here for me!

No doubt Barb. Names like David Baker, or Hal Galper are nothing to sneeze at. With a hubby to catch up with that must be very motivating!

.

rintincop - Thank you so much for passing this on to us. It is an amazing station. I've bookmarked the page and have it playing now. Deciding what to listen to at dinner will be easy... we'll just turn up the volume on our computer speakers - what fun!

OK...a new day, another attempt.

Jazzwee, you are right that it is easier to do it at a faster tempo to get that swing feel.

The first one here is just RH swing scale with LH holding the whole measure:

http://www.box.net/shared/hh03b4a888

Right swing?

While concentrating on the longer beat of the first 8th note, it is hard to accent the "+" of every other beat.


Next is RH scales with LH Charleston:
http://www.box.net/shared/hrh1lyiecs

Is Charleston rhythm steady enough?

Rosa

Rosa, you've got it licked!

You've been working hard! Now the rest will come over time and you need to shoot for rock solid time. That's all technique.

As you can see, even when someone already has good piano technique, building jazz rhythmic technique/swing is completely different.

Just so you understand the difference, I would play this myself with less focus on the first note being longer. Mine would be more even. But this is personal choice. Listen to some of the earlier swing discussion and videos and you will have a better sense of what was discussed because you now know the basics. I would actually tap the rhythm of their swing as you're watching videos/listening and you will discover what the masters are actually doing.

That was great, Rosa! Keep up the good work.

Now, an unanswered question that you, Rosa asked above. Here it is:

Q: When we hit that 2nd beat of LH Charleston, is it supposed to come down slightly after the swing of the 2+ of the RH or do they come down together at the same time?

I guess either jazzwee or Chris can answer it.

I am still fighting with getting that left hand to come down a fraction after the right hand comes down at the 2+. Am I making things harder than it should be? It would be easier if I struck LH and RH at the same time. It does sound better, tho, when I play it a bit after the right hand.

.

Thanks, rintincop - Would you be so kind as to post your rendition of the scale? (Lesson 8)

I learn quickly by listening. I would love to hear it at 100 bpm or 120 if that works better for you.

Now I'm confused,

if I play 8th notes, 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +, the 1 2 3 4 is a little longer and softer and the + is shorter with an accent. Right ??

Serge

Serge, that's correct but in Rosa's earlier recording she swung only some of the notes.

Ritincop gave a beautiful explanation. I will just add to it. In principle, the LH is the equivalent of the Rhythm section and its main function is to set the groove. Thus, the LH must be steady and exacting.

The RH plays in synch with this groove but it doesn't mean they play exactly at the same time. They play in a way that emphasizes the groove. In more advanced playing, the LH could drag the beat significantly and then get back on the beat. There's a Tension and Release effect with this.

But to do this, the LH and RH, or RH and Rhythm section must be solid as a rock first. Then later you can make all these time variations. Just note though that for dragging or getting ahead of the beat on the RH to sound good, it needs to go back to the beat often as it is tense to leave the beat.

OK thanks,

Serge

BTW Rosa and Barb, it's pretty hard to do Charleston on LH and Melody on the RH. The usual style is to stab the LH chords at the right moments, like 1 and 2+ but only when the RH is quiet. So if you listen to the way I did it at the beginning, I did not always play the LH.

The point to the Charleston exercise is that chords swing by timing the stabbing to the appropriate beat (1 and 2+ in this case). If you listen to pros comp on their LH while playing on the RH, you'll see some that have extremely short stabs on the LH, similar to what I was doing. Or Brad Mehldau's style which is unneven lengths of chords depending on holes in the RH playing. Or sometimes Bill Evans will just play a whole note. So there's no fixed way but the general approach is to have the LH balance the RH in some manner that's musically appropriate.

So this exercise doesn't mean that you will play a steady Charleston beat on the LH at all times. Learn to leave a hole here and there when there's a busy RH part.