Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.

Mike A, on another site, the webmaster was hunted down as the "Commercial Enterprise" not the one who made the music. On the other hand, none of our music is posted on Pianoworld so I guess they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. The other site in question stored MIDI files on the same server.

Van, I forgot to answer this.

When we are all done, you will find that the only key chord tones are the 3rd and the 7th. The harmonic 'quality' of a chord is defined by these two tones. Later we will play the 3rd on our RH. The 5th is the least important tone and is frequently skipped. Although so far, we have not used the 3rd, you will find that it is actually frequently hit by the melody.

LESSON #2

OK guys, I will up the ante a little now for the folks that have successfully done 1/7's. Now note that there's no timeline here. I'm putting the information in order of learning. Some of you may stay on 1/7's for awhile and some already know it so don't feel pushed. You can ask questions at any time even something early on.

RH 3rds

Now I want to add 3rds to each chord using the RH. So the LH keeps playing 1/7's and the RH plays the 3rd of each chord. You will find that once you've memorized 1/7's on the LH, you can leave that somewhat on autopilot because the intervals mostly constant except for the two major 7 chords. So now you can concentrate on the 3rds. At the beginning, just memorize the pattern but later, study how the third works with the chord. What's important here is to train the ear to recognize the melodic flow.

Here are the original changes in Chord Format:

CHORD FORMAT

A Section

| Am7 | D7 | Gmaj7 | Cmaj7 |
| F#m7b5 | B7b9 | Em7 | Em7 |

X2 (Do 2 times)

B Section

| F#m7b5 | B7b9 | Em7 | Em7 |
| Am7 | D7 |
| GMaj7 | CMaj7 |
| F#m7b5 | B7b9 |
| Em7 A7 | Dm7 G7 | F#m7b5 | B7b9 |
| Em7 | Em7 |

Notes Format: LH 1/7 + RH 3

Here's the same thing but now I've substituted the LH and RH notes to play for each chord. We will play no more than 3 notes per chord in two hands. For each chord I enclose the notes in brackets []. The first two notes are to be played in the LH, the third note (after the comma) is to be played in the RH.


A Section

| [A G, C] | [D C, F#] | [G F#, B] | [C B, E] |
| [F# E, A] | [B A, Eb] | [E D, G] | [E D, G] |

X2 (Do 2 times)


B Section

| [F# E, A] | [B A, Eb] | [E D, G] | [E D, G] |
| [A G, C] | [D C, F#] |
| [G F#, B] | [C B, E] |
| [F# E, A] | [B A, Eb] |
| [E D, G] [A G, C#]* |
| [D C, F#] [G F, B]* |
| [F# E, A] | [B A, Eb] |
| [E D, G] | [E D, G] |

Example: | [A G, C] | LH plays A G, RH plays C. Inside the bars, play the chord for 4 beats (count 1234). There's a couple of bars, marked with an asterisk, where there are two chords in each bar. Each chord here will be played for only two beats (count 12 12).

Here's a recording of this played in two hands. I apologize in advance for the bad recording. For some reason, the stereo sound was not balanced. In fact most of my recordings tonight had distortion so something went awry. At least this was passable.

http://www.box.net/shared/xv34ib4g8c

(note that in the recording I did not play the 4 chords marked with an asterisk as shown - I just played the 1st chord for 4 measures as a simplified version).

This style of playing is referred to as 2 + 1 solo piano style (from the Metaphors for Musician Book). It shows that 2 notes of the chord are played in the LH and 1 note in the RH. Later, we will get to playing this in 3 + 1 and 2 + 3. Or in the most advanced comping level 4 + 3 (referred to otherwise as block chords).

What's important here is to listen to the sound of each chord. In each bracket [] above, the notes referenced are in the following format [Root 7th, 3rd]. Listen closely to the sound because your ears needs to hear the two important tones: 7th and 3rd which Mike A earlier has emphasized as being harmonic 'Guide Tones'. (He's absolutely right too).

And, to be clear, what I was talking about ( here and here ) was the use of guide tones in a melodic rather than harmonic context, to create guide tone lines ... one of several sources of raw material for improvised solos. The article I mentioned illustrates the creation of guide tone lines in the context of Autumn Leaves.

And you were clear Mike A.

The separation of playing the 3rd in the RH makes it easy to quickly transform that 3rd as part of a solo line in the RH. The 7th, which can already be heard on the LH becomes the 3rd of the next chord in many cases. IMHO, hearing these tones is critical to making melodic lines later on.

In any case, even setting the improv section aside, the 7th and 3rd remain critical to the harmonic content. Without them, there is no harmonic flow in a tune like this, which is completely based on "Functional Harmony" (ii-V-I).

great thread and i'm following.

a small question....are we playing 7ths and/or 2nds for the 1/7 exercise? sounds, in the example above, like 7ths. is this typical in roughing out a voicing?

thanks.

westarm, this is actually a very good question.

In the later version, even with 3 notes as in Am7 played as [A G, C], we have A as the root, G as the 7th, C as the 3rd. It is important to play them in this order.

Do not play 'A G C' as 'G A C'. The reason for this is that the LH has a bigger spread. The root and the 7th have enough separation that the root will be played lower in the bass section.

If you played Am7 as 'G A C', you will have to play it above middle C to not be muddy and you will lose your bass tone.

I'm not in front of the piano, but I will probably need to specify exactly which Octave the root is played. I will do that.

I've been trying the original 1-7 shell LH and one note RH - I always falter at some point - fumbling for the chords - lost my way rhytmically a few times in the recording below and hit lots of wrong notes, but it's coming... *Lots* of fun - kids singing along as well at times. Everything else I've ever played has been pre 1900 classical

http://www.sailwave.com/piano/al1.mp3

That sort of thing feels natural but I'm not really sure what I'm doing...!

Thankyou jazzwee - that was a fun afternoon...

Wow LaValse, that sounds pretty good to me! It has a nice swing to it. You did a great job!

Don't rush this. It's important to get the LH on autopilot. This will be key to doing an improv on the RH later. And play it slow too. It will be hard to solo at this fast clip. I was going to post a much slower version except my Zoom H4 blew up on me.

One other thing, don't be afraid to play whole notes on the LH. When we get to doing the solo, a busy LH can be distracting for a beginner. I know I had a busy LH too but in my second recording, I'm just playing whole notes.

When actually played in a swing style, this tempo will be the final objective but we have to start slow first Sorry for setting a bad example...

Hi jazzwee,

Understood - I think I got a bit excited that I was playing music that my family recognised! I did try slow but lost the swing 'ability'... so I was in fact wondering about that. Thank you for the feedback; I'll concentrate on the issues you mention.

> Zoom H4 blew up

Get an Edirol...

Hi LaValse, I think you should practice it both ways. This is excellent! Yes when you slow down you will lose the swing. I'm glad you tried to swing it. The phrasing is very nice!

I'm just preparing you for the next step which is to play just the 3rds in the right hand and then from there, we can make new melodies. It will be pretty difficult to do that in fast form.

I've ruined two days of recording so far so I'm behind on that front. With very loud children (who are always running) in my house, it's been hard to get quiet time

Things I wanted to record: (I did, but lost them)

1. I wanted to demonstrate a LH slower Charleston Rhythm.

2. Ballad tempo

3. Swing examples - good and bad

4. Playing thirds and RH and creating simple melodies (ballad tempo)

I know the melody! I'll work on the chord voicings over the weekend and maybe I can post early in the new year.

Van - I *love* the laid back feel of your piece - it really has just that atmosphere one expects from a cool cat -

jazzwee and LaValse - the rhythms are great - haha, I wouldn't even have thought of that kind of a LH pattern. Thanks.

I see the ii-V-I's here, but they also look like the circle of 4ths to me, which I've seen in a lot of pop music.

And, hm. A B7b9 - isn't the b9 another B? Is it spelled with the b9 just to encourage you to put in the octave B?

Cathy

Hi Cathy, like I said earlier, don't worry about the alterations in chords like B7(b9) or F#m7(b5) (F# Half Diminished). There's a reason it is stated as such. These are:

Major 2-5-1
Key of G
Am7 - D7 - GMaj7

Minor 2-5-1
Key of Em
F#m7b5 - B7b9 - Em

Of course G and Em share the same diatonic scale so you are right that it could also be construed to appear as just the circle of fifths (or fourths).

B7(b9) or B7 Flat Nine, means a B7 with a C.

F#m7(b5) or F sharp minor Seven with a Flat Five, is an F#m7 played with a C instead of Db.

I'm looking forward to your future music post!

I just discovered this thread.
How does this study group work? I am interested in participating, but I've never learned music in a way like this.

I was looking at the thread, but I'm rather lost.
Please enlighten me.

Hi Playadom, unlike reading sheet music, jazz is played in a more free form fashion and so we are learning pieces of the puzzle so to speak. In the end, the intent is that someone could take a "Lead Sheet" (Music that has chords and melody) of any tune, and improvise upon it. It could be applied to any tune.

Not everyone needs to take this to the full level of learning everything jazz. An objective for some could be to play this tune as a "cocktail piano piece".

So far, what we've discussed is how to play the chords to Autumn Leaves in the LH and play the melody in the RH.

I hope that most people will take it to the point of playing chords in the LH while inventing new melodies in the RH, or improvisation in other words.

Hopefully this thread will provide enough background to achieve this.

This is pretty free form. Not everyone can learn at the same pace so this is a long term thread. Some people may take weeks to get beyond page 1.

Hopefully, I and others will put information here in increasing levels of complexity until it becomes a long term learning resource.

This is not something that can be learned in a weekend.

Here's a professional version of Autumn Leaves played by Jazz Master Keith Jarrett.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=io1o1Hwpo8Y

Oh yeah, duh - the key of B major has a C# -

thanks

Cathy

Actually B7 (unaltered) would be in the key of E...

In the key of Em, B7 would have a flat 9 since C is in the scale.

Jazzers are theory geeks...sorry

Frank Sinatra version of Autumn Leaves. Non-jazz of course.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hhB8H1YnRF0&feature=related

Jazz Versions:

Keith Jarrett.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=io1o1Hwpo8Y

Oscar Peterson
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3oHaL5cV9jY

Bill Evans
http://youtube.com/watch?v=89B6OmBuG4A

There are literally hundreds of versions of Autumn Leaves on YouTube so I picked the notable ones.

Now, I see the chords, but what about the melody?
Is this posted somewhere?

Hi Playadom, unfortunately we cannot post a real leadsheet with melody due to copyright reasons. So some of us have posted the melody to be played by ear.

For those wanting the actual leadsheet, you can get Real Book 1 Sixth Edition from your local Bookstore (or Amazon, etc.).