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Hi everyone,

I took my first lesson today and I am humbled. It seems like I know a lot less about playing piano than I thought.

I strugged before the instructor, not remembering a thing from my 6 month of studies a decade ago. She handed me some simple beginners piece and I just sat there staring at the notes, trying to remember which notes go with each keys, that is, if I can remember what the notes were! My tempo is all wrong too.

Are there methods to memorize the notes? I don't want to cram, I just want to see a note and say what it is right away without thinking, and play it on the piano too. Also, how do you keep the correct tempo. The instructor tap her feet and count for me, 1 2 3 4... but I always messed this portion up too.

At the end of the lesson, I feel like a loser. But I really want to learn to play the piano (a dream of mine) so will keep at it.

If you have suggestions, online programs, games, etc... that helped you in your studies, I would love to know.

Thanks a lot!

Warmest regards,
Gnimble, aka Humbled

Hey, you remind me of myself a few weeks ago. Don't fret! After a few lessons it will all make sense. The tempo is just the beats, and if you want to get better at that, you can use a Metronome. The keys will get into your head eventually. Just keep practicing. Comeon, you only went to one lesson, of course it won't stick in this fast. You have to let the glue dry. ^^

Jalmus is a nice free computer game for learning the notes and other things. It is free but not exactly easy to setup, but I like it now that I know it.

Hang in there and you'll get better...trust me!

Give your teacher some time to evaluate you and come up with a lesson plan.

Once you get going you'll be addicted like the rest of us!

gnimble,

Hang in!!!!

Everything about learning the piano takes time. Usually way more time than we want it to take. It also take a lot of practice. Even a few minutes sitting down and practicing or playing something everytime you pass the piano adds up fast.

As far as the notes, it's been so long since I learned them that I can't remember what it took. Eventually it just clicks.

For tempo, get used to using a metronome. There are some free ones you can download to use on the computer, or you can pick up an electronic or a pendulum one.

Also, get used to counting out loud. I know it sounds stupid, but sometimes you just have to count. I have one passage (the real problem part is really only two measures) in a piece I am playing that I have to actively count or I will mess it up everytime! Eventually you will find that a steady tempo will be part of you, but this will take many years.

Don't feel like a loser! You have a dream. Stick to it and you will improve and before you know it you will be able to play pieces that you love.

Rich

Gnimble,

Psychopianoman said: "Give your teacher some time to evaluate you and come up with a lesson plan."

I agree 100%.

It takes some time, for me, several hours of working with someone (3-5 Lessons) before I know a lot about what we want and need to do overall, but surely, some input can be given at the moment, when things are not working well for the student at the lesson.

Addressing note names on the piano staff and keyboard as the start of a review of them, and creating a steady beat with you participating would be helpful to you from what you describe at the lesson. As a piano teacher, at that point, I would encourage and advise what and how to practice, but I would not overload you with things to do at home while the "confusion" was going on.

Don't panic! What you experienced that bothered you, will soon be a thing of the past and you will be moving along before you know it.

The great start is that you are on time at your lesson with your new teacher, sitting on the piano bench, facing in the right direction. And that you have lots of appointments scheduled for your new journey in music.

Be kind to yourself and let the music unfold from with in you. Intensity and judgment about how you are doing is one of the obstacles that gets in the brains way of processing what you are learning, and bringing to the surface when you need the information.

The brain can think of one thing at a time - either the lesson material - or the "dissing" yourself. Keep a cool, calm, collected spirit and that should help greatly. Don't let the "scampering" that your mind was trying to do in recall stress you. It's obvious to me that review and basic things about reading music would be a good place to start and to proceed accordingly. Be observant, but not overwhelmed.

Good luck to you, I wish you and your teacher well!

Betty

Betty, that last point is maybe the most important but hardly ever gets a mention

Gnimble, welcome to the beginners club! It is daunting when starting out as an adult. I think the key is to practise every day, even if only for a few minutes. Teachers love students who practice!

Don't try to do everything at once. In a practice session, pick out just one or two things and work on those. If you find yourself getting frustrated, take a break or work on something else.

Hi

I understand how you feel perfectly.

I just started taking lessons after years of not reading and I too was humbled. I cried at my first lesson.

I prided myself in learning moonlight sonata, the second movement, so I thought I was more accomplished. When my teacher gave me some easy pieces to play, I fumbled and fudged through it and wept in humliation.

She was very consoling, but I was still mortified.

As for learning the notes, I have been using this website link every day for about an hour, in four sessions and it has really helped me to learn the notes.

It really takes practice, and I do still fumble when I get to my piano, but I know that I am learning the notes. I even know the notes above and below the ledger lines for both staffs now.

Here is the link

http://www.musictheory.net/trainers/html/id82_en.html

If you click on the "settings" tab, you can change which clef you want to learn, and also you can adjust the ledger lines too. To really challenge yourself you can learn both clefs, or limit one clef to just the lines, and the other to expand. It is the best I have found and it is really helpful. I no longer look at them as "notes" per say but "shapes," and that at least helps me to learn them.

Please try it and let me know how you find it?

So be encouraged.

people usually go to the 1st lesson and thought that they could play this or that, do this or that. but the reality is that the 1st time is always the hardest time because of new teacher and your nerve and something would screw up... i remember how badly i played for my teacher at my 1st lesson. but then again, your teacher might be able to evaluate you better and know what to do with you later, because you had shown your weakness in this or that.

so, no worries! things will definitely get better after the 1st lesson.

Don't feel bad. 6 mos of study 10 years ago isn't something you can bank on.

Get a set of flash cards and go over them EVERY day. The front shows you the note on the staff and the back names the note and shows where it is on the keyboard. The first time my teacher quizzed me on them it took me 4.5 minutes to get through them all correctly. Now I can do it in about a minute.

Hang in there and be patient. With practice it will come.

chin up.

The following is great for learnign your notes. I use it twice a day. I would suggest you only do 25 notes at a time. Also say the note out loud for additional reinforcement. This has helped me a heck of a lot and I have been using it for over a year.

http://www.emusictheory.com/drillPianoKeyFinder.html

Thank you for the overwhelming support :-) I really need it after the lesson I got today. My mind was racing during the lesson. It kept thinking, "you must be worst than the 3 year old who could at least get a few notes right!"

At some point, the instructor seems to be frustrated. She glides her hand over the keys to show me an example, and all I can see is a blur motion, not really seeing the keys she used. When it was my turn again, I said "Sorry... is this the correct key?" After a few more examples, I hit the correct note by accident (and it was really by accident). I would not be surprised if she decide to hand me a piece of candy at that spot!

I did learn a lot from the lessons, like how using the finger instead of wrist movement to hit keys; how the same chord are sometimes played with different fingers (I never learn this years ago!) and choked over this part. The problem for me is that I was already overwhelmed by just trying to remember the basic keys when the instructor gave me other more advanced techniques; such as using different fingers for the same note that I don't know where to locate on the keyboard!

My piano will arrive this Tuesday so I will have something to practice on by the next lesson in a week. I will use the links and information provided above this post to practice my notes, which I'm seriously lacking in.

Thanks again for sharing your experience and your stories with me, and also information and links to help me improve. It makes taking my first step a lot easier!

Warmest regards
Gnimble

Gnimble, if a new student told me they had played for just 6 months and that was 10 years ago I would treat them as a complete beginner. I would not expect them to remember anything. We would start from scratch.

Do make sure you talk to your teacher about your concerns; she is not a mind reader. She needs to know as much about your experiences and worries as possible in order to help you. As an adult student it is important that you take some control over the direction of the lessons. Tell her what you want to achieve. If you are not familiar with the keyboard layout then say that you want to spend some time working on that. If your knowledge of theory is poor then ask her to explain. If you feel unhappy at the end of the session you need to let the teacher know so that something can be done about it. That frustration you mentioned the teacher showed might be down to a lack of communication.

Above all, try to enjoy the whole experience. You are not in competition with anybody so don’t beat yourself up about it. Allow yourself to make mistakes along the way because it is all part of the process. If you put in the practice time and effort you will make good progress but it might take a while. Stick with it.

gnimble that's normal there's nothing to be beat yourself up about.

In a few lessons things will start to click we all go through that.

Before I started lessons I took one of John Thompsons or Schaums primer book and went throught it. I also did flash cards. When I got to my first lesson I knew all where the keys were, tempo etc etc so we were able to get right into lessons.

That's what worked for me but everyone is different.

I do know teachers who get frustrated and show it. It's very poor pedagogical practice though. A lesson should have nothing but positive feelings.

Gnimble, if this continues after you've had a talk with your teacher and explained that you need to back up a little and work more on the basics for a while, I'd find a different teacher. I had problems with the first teacher I tried. It was a difficult decision to leave her and go looking for someone else because I was a true beginner and acutely aware that I really needed a teacher, but I've never regretted it. Any frustration in your lessons should come from you, not from your teacher, and a good teacher should be able to recognize your frustration and provide you with the tools to defuse it.

The most important thing I've learned about taking lessons is to be patient. My expectations of how fast I should progress have slowly come down to a more realistic level. Before that I thought the fact that I was not progressing as fast as I wanted was the fault of the teacher, and this would make me upset with the teacher. The reality is this stuff takes a while, and consistent practice is the best way to progress.

Good luck Gnimble, music is a wonderful thing, and the piano is a fantastic way to make music.

I think you're being far too hard on yourself.

I just recently restarted lessons after a 20 year break. I told myself, "you're starting all over again from scratch," as to not create any unrealistic expectations from myself. If I can excel in certain areas from my lessons 20 years ago, I'll look at it as 'gravy'.

Time, practice and patience is all you're lacking, at least for the moment -- it will come to you.:-)

I suggest you get the first volume of "Alfred's adults all in one" series. This series has an excellent beginning in training your fingers to identify notes. Though short, I suggest you go back over the first section of the book three or four times. It has letter in the notes, conjunctive movements, just play these pages, sing the notes, letter names, and melody when you play through.

Also, Go to your local music store and Get a nice size pack of music flash cards. Learn from these cards using the recall method. Simply stay "old school" when it comes to learning. Its a tryed and true way. And I feel flash cards work better than a computer program. And what ever you do don't "make your own" Just spend the money.

As to counting your teacher should not be counting for you. However, you will need to count out loud yourself. You, should be doing taping exercises, together with counting out loud, and silently in your mind. Tap your hand on your thighs; your left and right hands LH for lower staff, RH for treble upper staff. And tap very lightly, or you will hurt your thigh. These are typical preliminary practices many beginning piano student should be engaged in.

If you are inclined toward obsession like me, or would like to become more throughly learned in regard to rhythms get the Alfred's "Rhythm Bible".

In this book, do the exercises for the pianist. Here, you use a drum stick to tap out the score of rhythm notation. You can switch hands after a while. You will need a good metronome. Like the Boss Dr. Beat DB-88. This machine generates triples and vocalizes the count if you need to know where your at. In practicing from this book your will instill an ability to hold time in your mind, landing on the count many seconds later. Also you will learn very advance notation. Overly, advanced in fact. In this book. I stopped twenties or so pages into the book just before the chapters on syncopation. Learning straight rhythms was plenty of skill for what I wanted to do and be. The most useful thing I learned from this book was the ability to quickly distinguish and change between triple timing to quarter note and back. This is how I taught myself rhythms.

Hello, I was just curious as to why you think that flash cards are more effective than internet note reading tools?

Anyone who shares this view can answer and anyone who has tried both methods and have found internet to be more effective would be helpful too.

Thanks

I discovered your able to pause and think when you are holding cards in your hand mulling over that note when need be. Having it in your hand enables you to move slower or faster more spontaneously.

Computer Programs are good too! And work to train you in another way. Like facilitation of speed in recognition.

+1. My teacher is very positive, and that helps me tremendously.

She will also sit next to me, and have me play the piece with her. If I make a mistake or get lost, I'm supposed to catch up wherever I can. The first time through is usually a train wreck. The second or third time always shows great improvement. I think this is a great teaching tool.

I think having someone else run through the flash cards with you is beneficial. A bit more emotional than doing it against the computer. A "hurrah" from a person gives you a greater sense of accomplishment.

I am now wondering if I should not take lessons until I relearn the basics? I picked up the two Bastien Older Beginner piano texts I studied a decade ago and slowly went through the lessons... (I'm on the second chapter). I'm able to understand the theory and play the examples so far.

Believe it or not, I actually afraid to go to the next lesson scheduled because of the experience at the first lesson.

Would you recommend doing this or just go through with the lessons?

Warmest regards,
Gnimble

gnimble,

You are going to be doomed to making any progress if you allow your thinking to continue. You are closing the door before it has fully opened. This is fixable if you will just say more hopeful things to yourself - establishing goals - and learning from your experiences at the piano - moving forward.

What we think is what we cause to happen - we are very self actualizing in either direction - forward or backward - and maintaining status quo is also a loss.

I would say you already have your first lesson before you - unrelated to music - which is dealing with your obstacles and fears .

Don't give up before the miracle!

Best foot forward! Give your cold feet a chance to warm up.

Regards!

Betty

Gnimble, I personally believe that lessons are the most useful at the very beginning of learning piano. It could be counterproductive for you to try to progress on your own, only to discover a few months down the line that you're not holding your hands properly or whatever.

I thought Donna expressed it very well in her post: It sounds like the problem is that the teacher, for whatever reason, apparently thought you were more advanced than you are. I'd go to the next lesson, explain how frustrated you felt at the first one, and ask the teacher to slow down until you're comfortable with the material. Is she cannot do that, then I'd question whether she is the right teacher for you.

Hang in there. The first few months of piano are without a doubt the most frustrating, as it takes a while to master hand independence and learn the notes and be able to start playing anything that sounds very interesting. But there's no substitute for that learning curve, and once you get past it, there's a world of beautiful music out there waiting for you.

Stick with the lessons.

I was a Church Organist by the age of 10, playing all on my own in front of hundreds of people every week.

After a near 20 year break, I recently took my first ever piano lesson. How embarassed was I that I couldn't remember which notes were which!!

My 5th lesson is tomorrow night and of course I'm fretting becasue I haven't had enough time to practice etc. etc. But I'm enjoying the challenge and already making progress on my sight reading (it was never a strong point of mines before, particularly the bass clef).

Don't set your sights too high, relax and most importantly enjot it. It's not a race and shouldn't be torture.

There's some famous saying about enjoying the journey more than the destination that I can't recall precisely, but that's how I'm looking at learning the piano.

The first lesson is always a harrowing experience. Even for those who have played for some time, meeting with a new teacher for the first time seems to cause them to completely forget what they ever knew. The music on the music rack ---even though played often, looks totally foreign to them. Take heart. We have all been there, and have survived. Gaby tu

Everybody has told you... everybody has the same problem. I did too. And the number of factors that you internally blame are limitless:
- the keys are different
- the action is way different
- the surrounding is different
- (for me) there are way to many keys compared to a organ (I was lost where the middle C is).
- a noise in the garden..
- ...

could go on for a hour.. in the end it's all nerves. There where moments I couldn't tell right from left. Or what my thumb was. Now that is behind me I really enjoy it. That point will come sooner then you expect. Keep communicating just tell that you feel lost/nerves. She can tell because when you play at first you fingers will shake (my did!).

Just make a goal for yourself.. If you still feel this after i.e. 3 months you should work on solving it first (playing in public helps, I’ve played at number of piano stores in front of people and although I couldn’t play and I find myself more comfortable behind the keys). But don't give up... and don't blame yourself for it.

I'd give the teacher a few weeks but really, a good teacher will not get frustrated with you - especially at the first lesson. I've left more than one lesson thinking "He must be in there now beating his head against a wall" but my teacher has never shown anything but patience during a lesson. Learning to play should be a good experience for both of you. If you continue to feel deflated after a lesson, I'd look around....

A quick suggestion on the timing front.
When I sorted out my timing I did this listening in the car - every sigle peice of music I listened to I counted like this

1234, 2234, 3234,4235,5234 etc (or 123,223 if its in 3/4)
Ever noticed how so many musicians tap their foot? you can do this too if you have an automatic gear.
Eventually I became able to instinctively know where I was in a chorus or form of a piece without the need to intellectually count - it became a habit- internalised (after a couple of months). It also had the bonus of helping me recognise when chord changes come and how the patterns repeated.
I am recommending this, although you are just taking first steps, because it will help you feel the beat of any piece you play, plus have the other bonus effects that will help you in the future.

Zero

ZeroZero, I don't think it's advisable for someone with poor coordination to tap their foot while driving.
That's a good point. I've been wondering lately if any of our members could perform 4'33'' from memory.

ROFL!! Thanks for letting me start my day with a laugh.

There are many aspects to learning to play the piano beyond just playing the actual instrument. Learning to play in front of an audience and in front of your teacher are very distinct skills that must be learned in addition to everything else. After a twenty-year break, I'm now relearning how to play in front of a teacher. I've had five or six lessons with my new teacher and I'm beginning to get the hang of it.

When I started lessons again at the beginning of the summer, I had several pieces that were in pretty good shape. I could play them through with almost no hiccups. When I went in for the lesson, I was a little nervous but generally felt pretty comfortable. I sat down and my teacher said "Well, what can you play for me." I got literally two measures into my best piece, choked and that was the end of that. I made a couple more starts and it got worse every time until I couldn't play more than two consecutive notes. It really confused me because I thought I had myself together. I've played in front of audiences ranging from a few people to several hundred but I hadn't played in front of a teacher for so long that I forgot how to do it.

I still have occasional bouts with becoming flustered like that but I'm beginning to learn how to clear my head and move on. It's tough because I also get that feeling that my teacher is becoming frustrated with me when it happens. I have no evidence of this and have to believe that it isn't true. Surely every piano teacher is familiar with the phenomenon but nonetheless, it's hard to keep that feeling out of my head. If your teacher really is getting frustrated even while you're putting forth a sincere effort, then you've got to find a new teacher because that will never work. Just be sure you're not imagining it.. you probably are.

Teachers, how do you handle it when your students get flustered? It seems as though my teacher largely ignores it and I suspect it's because she thinks addressing it may only make the situation worse. I think she thinks treating it as a non-issue is the best way for me to get past it and move on.

in the case i messed up and stopped at lesson, my teacher would say: 'keep going'. then the question is whether i could start from where i stopped. at the beginning (1-3 months) i couldn't start in the middle of piece, and my teacher insisted on me reading from music then. so, i learned and improved my sight reading skill, and now i could start from where i got lost by following music.

you'd learn too and finally, you'd feel comfortable playing for anyone, once you don't really care whether you'd make mistakes or not.

Speaking with my classroom teacher hat on - it's what we do (along with the hours of preparation).

It's internalizing with our mutterings to ourselves that get us into this state - and the opposite is also true - when we are trying to think and nothing comes to mind.

Being aware of the cause is a first step to dealing with it.

Is it the "I played it better at home" thought, or "There's someone listening to me" or something else more serious happening.

Can you chuckle or laugh about this?

To me, this happens with conscientious people (did I say "perfectionist"?) who have high expectations of themselves, and want to do their very best or they don't want to do it at all.

If you will put all other things aside and just play regardless.....you probably will get through it. Don't anticipate problems. Just step out and get the music moving!

I haven't seen your teacher, but invite him or her to smile at you by flashing your smile (no matter what else is happening at the piano) and you'll soon feel more comfortable. A smile on your face really does help - it gives the brain a different message.

Try to think of your teacher as your ally - not your judge and juror. It is simply sound that you are making - when the music stops so does the sound.

Remember the bubble jar with the wand that little kids like? Well, I like them too, and I have used them as therapy for myself when I was worked up over something. When the bubble pops it's gone! You can't preserve these bubbles from the bubble wand no matter what you do! It's like clearing your head!

Thank you for your comments. I will stay with my lessons. You're right in that I have a very high expectation of myself so when I fall flat in my face, it is easy to recoil and hide.

The funny thing is that I'm also a teacher and have been teaching for the past 10 years. The way I treat my students is different from the way my current piano teacher teaches me.

On the first lesson, I thought I would sit down and talk with the teacher to get to know her and to get her to know me. To discuss what I have learned so far and so for her to plan lessons for me. It does not matter to me if we talked the entire lesson so she should know from where I come from.

What happened was I knocked on the door, the teacher opened and walked me to the piano. She took an advanced teaching books out and asked me to play. And for most of the hour, I struggled to play. With the basics of reading music hiding somewhere in my brain, I told the teacher several times that I can't tell where the music notes are refering to on the piano. She said keep trying, she wanted to see my techniques and if I will make some of the mistakes that her other students make when they play.

I will bring my beginners book next time I go for my lessons. Hopefully my teacher will see it a lot less advanced and will start me on the basics again.

I'm practicing now but have problems counting. If I count, I have trouble reading the notes. If I read the notes, my counting will be incorrect. I will practice a lot in this area. Maybe when I know the notes by heart that counting will come naturally to me.

Warmest regards,
Gnimble

Gnimble,

Your approach should work well for you! Your original plan of talking would have been a very good step for both of you. I hope you can implement that together.

You said: "I will bring my beginners book next time I go for my lessons. Hopefully my teacher will see it a lot less advanced and will start me on the basics again."

Isn't it great that so many have responded to your topic!

Betty

Gnimble,

Just a thought, it would be very worthwhile for you to slow down to the point where you can count and play at the same time. Sometimes when trying to put left and right hands together or get a difficult rhythm, we all have to just take it so slow that it is almost painful (mentally that is, not physically). It sounds like this approach would really help you with counting and playing at the same time.

Rich

Betty,

It's great my post got so much attention. I'm learning from all the tips and suggestions. Thank you and everyone else!

Rich,

I will do as you suggest, to slow down my tempo so I can get the rythms right.

---

On another note, my piano arrived today and I spent this morning assembling it. I won't have a chance to use it for a while as my boss just increased my workload with deadlines in the next few days. I'll be at work, wishing I was at home practicing on my new digital keyboard.

Thanks again to everyone for your replies.

Warmest regards,
Gnimble

I found some good material for piano self-study here to supplement lessons: http://sites.estvideo.net/lk
For me this has been very helpful, there is even suggestion for a practise schedule.

Recommended by AminNine: http://sites.estvideo.net/lk

This is a very encompassing site but in my opinion it's "overkill" in too much being presented. Looking at it as a piano teacher I ask "and what does all of this mean?"

I still think that the most empowerment we can give to a musician learning about music theory is the information about "how" and "why" and "what it means". Just about everything we do in music breaks down into it's most simplest, easy to understand form. We ourselves need to know how to process this information through our brains - not read it from charts such as these. The thinking part is easy - we should do it for ourselves!

I am working on this as a project "Piano Power" as a teaching method and "Piano Empowerment" as the theory and techniques needed to navigate the music staff and the keyboard choreography in a most direct and sensible presentation.

My concern too are the practicing suggestions which I disagree with. Hanon is mentioned but misspelled as Hannon - how can this be that the site would be considered "authentic" with an error such as this.

I also did not see in the scale development area, the mention of whole steps (the 2) and half steps (the 1). The reason why this would be important is the formula for a major scale is * (keynote) W (whole step) and H (half step): Two tetrachords are joined together to create a major scale. (* - W - W - H)(W* - W - W - H). This is the standard way of expressing the building of major scales yet it does not appear here.

It would be interesting to know exactly what was helpful to those who have read and used this site. I, myself, do not see how it is easily usable and converts to action on the keyboard.

Such as wikipedia is not a completely accurate resource, other sites often have that problem too.

This is simply my opinion here, and I state it because of my belief that concepts such as these need to be given to the student at the time at which he needs them and applied to developing his present lesson assignment.

Looking ahead and seeing the whole ball of wax in music theory does nothing to assist you. It can be explained by a teacher so very much easier so that you "get it" and "use it" appropriately. You need the "sound" and the "feel" and the "thought" of what you are doing not just a reference chart.

We allow holes such as in "Swiss Cheese" to develop in our brains by not being as sequential as possible in the entering of knowledge. And, also by jumping too far ahead in our enthusiasm to be gaining knowledge.

I guess I could get into discussion and arguments all day long about my teaching philosophies, but I stand behind them. I am saying be cautious in what you put into your information base - it is not easily fixable once you have entered error.

I hope this posting is helpful to someone.

Betty