Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
The Kawai dealer in Lubbock, TX was my closest store, which I visited in person, tried the lone Kawai they had on the floor (a CN27), mentioned what I was looking for (CA78 or older CA67), then left my info, hoping to hear back from them on a price. Which I never did. I then contacted the Kawai corporate store in Dallas because their website advertised a CS8 floor model for sale ($4,000). They followed up by saying that they could do a new CA78 for the same price. I’m honestly not sure if that 4K price was going to include the shopping or not.
I’m originally from the Los Angeles area, which is why I was able to stop by Pierre’s Fine Pianos when I was home over the Thanksgiving holiday. So I did have a chance to personally meet Pierre and try out the various digital pianos in store. .
I had already done the typical 65% off MSRP price to come to a figure in my head for what a decent price might be on an ebony polish CA78 ($5799 x 0.65 = $3,769). I walked by the CA78 at Pierre’s, and to my surprise, it had a price tag of $3,795 sitting on it. On top of that, I’m out of state, so Pierre said that he wouldn’t have to charge me tax, and that he would probably be able to secure a delivery price and keep it at the flat price of $3,800.
Kinda funny, but after I was done poking at the piano, I started saying “Soooo....great piano, but there’s one issue...” To which, he jokingly cut me off and said “You live in New York?” Apparently, he gets out of state buyers all the time, so again, that put me at ease.
Pierre’s is one of the more infamous high-end piano stores in Los Angeles, so I’m sure he sells a decent number of of 5- and 6-six figure acoustic pianos in any given year. From what I’ve gathered, he seemed to indicate that he likes to keep his sales volume up with Kawai to retain his wholesale discounts. Maybe churning these digital pianos goes a long way towards helping him pad his stats? <~ pure speculation!
Was all of this salesman mumbo jumbo? Critics can think what they want, but it felt like a good price and Pierre did his part to call around and get good price on delivery. I briefly worked in trucking sales out of the LA port, so I know that good shipping costs often come down to timing and a Rolodex of relationships. These DPs-in-a-box are tasty dense and durable cargo, if you can find the right truck going in the right direction (all roads lead out of LA!). And just to clarify, the piano is coming via a very reputable shipper (YRC Freight), and not some mom-and-pop trucking shenanigans.
In fact, a real worry about smaller mom-and-pop piano shops is if their first instinct on shipping quotes is to simply call FedEx/UPS/USPS. Egads! Those quotes are always going to be outrageous. As I said, YRC is perfectly reputable, but definitely more of a “deep cut” shipper if you’re not familiar with the world of trucking companies.
Anyway, I suppose my search ran the gamut of mom and pop shops (Lubbock, TX), a higher volume store (Pierre’s) and the corporate Kawai store in Dallas. The only “go to your local retailer” sentiment I can conceive of would maybe come from the corporate store. Maybe that’s why they weren’t able to offer a discount below $4,000, maybe they leave it up to local stores to offer deeper discounts below a certain point.
Feel free to give Pierre a call, if you want to talk price and shipping. When we met in person the first time I even mentioned that I had read about him before on these forums. YMMV on final price, but $4,000 and below seems like a good starting point right now on the CA78 in ebony polish.
Here is short little song on the Steinway D using Erard's settings with the Mid 2 added and minus the High Surround. I have the midi sensitivity set to -20.
I think this song sounds better on my VSL CFX, but I am appreciating this Steinway the more I play it. It's worth getting the full library just for the Ribbon mic.
God Bless, David
David B, thank you for sharing your playing and a rendering of the VSL Steinway D. Your performance was excellent, and this virtual piano sounds great.
This is exactly what I want to have access to, for evaluating new piano VSTs, real playing from real users of the product, not affiliated with it.
Though I will pass on the VSL Steinway D, mostly because of the huge price, and it calls for a new SSD.
Must say the L & S Concert Grand sounds amazing in this demo, simply love it! I came this close to getting it, at 60% off now (in case anyone missed it).
Don't think I've heard any virtual piano, quite like the Light & Sound Concert Grand, and with the huge number of microphones, the tweak ability seems very good.
So I reviewed the big thread we had about the LSCG, which I nevertheless followed very thoroughly, at the time.
The playability problems and irregular numbers of velocity layers, across the keybed, worry me.
Even though I'm not so picky about things like that, or halfpedalling issues, which I hardly know what is, anyway, LOL.
If I didn't think I could get a sound out of my other piano VSTs, one at a time or by mixing a few of them in a DAW, close enough to that of the LSCG, I would jump on it.
At the moment I would suggest going with ABRSM (although, admittedly, it wouldn't be my decision), and so far haven't come across any cogent argument for other options. Come to think of it, I don't think other options have really been discussed......or are those posters not happy with ABRSM hoping to improve it by expressing their concerns?
Isn't it like saying 'Well, I've got red paint, I don't know what other colours are available, so I'll stick to the red, rather than explore and consider the arguments against it'?
Isn't that like saying 'My parents voted Conservative, I've always voted Conservative, - I haven't read any other manifesto and haven't explored any other possibilities, so I'll carry on doing what I've always done, despite many arguments against it'?
Other options wasn't the topic of the post. Improving the exam system wasn't the topic of the post.
If it's exams you happen want, then look no further than any one of the exam boards. If it's music you're after, and a broad outlook on music, then there are infinite possibilities awaiting
OK, good. As I'm not particularly interested in passing exams or putting other people through hoops, asking them to jump over fences and so on, I'm interested in these possibilities. Mine was a genuine question, not an 'if you don't like ABRSM put your money where your mouth is' question. When I was brought up ABRSM was 'how it was done' and because as a 5 year old I merely got a pass at grade 1 on the violin and my elder brother did better (taking it at the same time as I did) I was pretty-much given up on. I kind of regret that, took up piano later and so on. However, without knowing what these options are and understanding how they are better, ABRSM would still be my 'default' recommendation.
Putting it mathematical way I would say that inaccuracy of MIDI values of keystrokes' velocity and duration must not exceed 10-20% compared to imagined ideal, after multiplication of keystrokes' duration by a coefficient of tempo deficiency.
So what did you really mean assuming this is a joke?
No joke, this is exactly what I mean. In other words, until the inaccuracy in, most importantly, rhythm and, secondly, dynamics are within the mentioned boundaries of approximately 15% I don't think it can be considered music, most likely it should be called noodling.
The music begins when a piece is reasonably polished and can be played freely. Come to think of it, freely to the point when interpretation can be changed on the fly and you can freely experiment with it.
Love the Mp11Se .but I wouldnt buy it because its to wide and places the sheetmusic rest to far away.I dont like the music rest on my VPC1 also.speaker set up for home use is also bothersome and uses more floor space . Im waiting for a Kawai CS12 to come along.
Anyone vs Some-people - poor wording ! Would "Most People" be better Or better - Motivate people. Or - People with an average IQ From my own experience I'd say Motivated people with a reasonable IQ !! I have a grand daughter and at age 5 I taught her " SomeWhere Over the Rainbow" both hands' Motivation - we'd go to the ToyShop where she would select a toy which she would cary home in a bag and place on top of the piano. I would show her the notes for one or two bars and once she could play these ten times thru - Then Voila ! the toy was hers . She is now 16 and still knows the tune inspite of learnig guitar and not piano.
Exactly. This is just what I experience with my Blüthner. My music desk looks like this one:
It is very beautiful. It doesn't block out the sound. And I can see the beauty of the plate and strings through it when I am playing.
David, I really like the desk on your Bluthner. It is similar to the one on my Grotrian. Grotrian 192 I can't seem to post a pic directly from the PW Gallery; there is supposed to be 3 image links under each pic in the Gallery but I don't see them?
Being a great fan of Thalberg's piano works (it's a wicked fact of life that I'm unable to play any), I've just listened to the clip that the OP linked to. A wonderful performance, which I thoroughly enjoyed! Imho it's a great shame that Thalberg's works are in general relatively unknown, and rarely heard today on stage. I guess this is due to their difficulty.
Not all of Thalberg's works are of great technical difficulty. He wrote a large collection of pieces(the name of this opus escapes me but someone will probably post it) designed to help the student to develop a legato and singing tone. They're almost all transcriptions or songs and are specifically composed in a non virtuosic style. Many are quite beautiful.
Edit:Here is the piece I mentioned above. It's his Op. 70 called The art of singing as applied to the piano http://waltercosand.com/CosandScores/Composers%20Q-Z/Thalberg,%20Sigismond/Art%20of%20Singing%20Applied%20to%20the%20Piano,%20Op.70/
So a new Essex 173 is about 14k (price of G2 plus 5k). If you like the tone and action I think it is a worthy candidate. I would go with a brand new instrument for that kind of price difference. Especially considering that G2 is 1984 model.
The popular 1944 Christmas tune “Baby It’s Cold Outside” has been swirled in controversy this year with folks now questioning the appropriateness of the lyrics.
In my view even more disturbing lyrics are contained in the song I would now like to submit to the Bar. Examples of Infidelity, deceit, voyeurism, invasion of personal space and perhaps inappropriate and unwanted touching all raise their ugly heads in the decidedly unwoke musical offering below.
Actually, you might be able to "get by" on a "quick and dirty" basis by using epoxy to re-glue. There seems to be enough material to get a bond. Don't try to remove the other glue. It looks like a previous repair.
Lesson learned: assume that you are pressing down on one or more keys when you are removing a grand action unless you can visually verify that no hammers are up off their rest position.
Take comfort in the fact that you are not the first person to have done this. There probably isn't a long-practicing technician out there that hasn't had this experience at some time or other.
Answer to D Boyce _YES ! Practically the whole length of the action. Another thought I have is:- at some stage new hammers c/w new stems may have been installed and this would be how the treble end of the row of hammers came to be at the wrong level. The hammers are pretty well worn so this is not all that likely. The reason for the above thougt is: - In the TOP action securing SLOTS there has always been a visable difference, about 10mm, between the treble and base TOP securing RODs . When I initially ( about 10yrs back) bought the piano I noticed this but did not check the the base "jacking" bolts. Inspite of all the above the when I place a spirt-level on the piano case and then on the action the levels agree.
Congrats! That desk usually accompanies turned Victorian legs in the Clara Schumann edition from Grotrian. It is the factory desk, but I wonder if it was ordered that way or changed after for the original owner. The Grotrian 192 is on my very short list of favorite pianos in that approximate size.
If you don't have a teacher this You Tube channel may help you. He plays through all the major method books including the Faber books.
If that link won't work go to youtube and search for the "Lets Play Piano Methods" channel. The "tinymozarts" channel has Faber method book videos also
I am not sure about the cost of the MP11SE. Yes if I purchased just the MP11SE it would be less. Even though I am mostly going to use headphones I would still want a good pair of monitors to go with the MP11SE and a stand and bench. Getting a pair of Yamaha HS8 monitors with a stand and bench and the MP11SE came in around $3,600. I can get a CA78 right now for $3,700 no shipping if I pick it up myself. The dealer is about an hour away and charges over $400 for delivery so I would get it myself.
One consideration that I included in my decision for a purchase that you do not seem to be considering is this …..
Most older American grands were outfitted with iron wrapped bass strings. Mapes and Paulello offer the two ferrous wrap materials that I have found. Does anyone have experience with both of these materials and can describe any differences. Thanks, Craig
One (really bad) way to tell if they're celluloid is to hold a lit match to one. Celluloid burns quite vigorously. Of course, I'm only kidding about doing a flame test, but celluloid really does burn well--it's largely nitrocellulose. Ping pong balls used to be celluloid, and I think some still are. They burn very well!
We've been impressed with our experiences with the mainline and higher-line products that have been produced at the Hailun, Pearl River (Ritmuller, Kayserburg), Parsons (Brodmann et al), and Perzina factories. However, there are specific models we tend to like more than others, see the Piano Buyer "staff picks" section for examples. It's not fair to say because it's made by "brand x", it's automatically good/bad, in the lower-priced segment.
Shop Our Store Online
Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.
Special Purchase! Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions only $39. (while supplies last)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.besbrodepianos.com/photo138/bluthnerGDET.jpg)
